[lojban-beginners] Re: la'e di'u

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see, so it is grammatical to refer to "se go'i", "te go'i", etc...?
>

  Yes, but understand that by themselves, "se go'i", etc.  are bridi,
So I can say "loi rokci cu jdari .i mi se go'i " which means "Rocks
are hard.  I am a force to which rocks are unyielding."  Because
"go'i" and its family "carry along" not only the selbri, but  all the
arguments (which in this case is x1=loi rokci, selbri=jdari, so "go'i"
translates to "loi rokci cu jdari" and "se go'i" is "se jdari loi
rokci").  When you say "lo go'i" or "lo se go'i" you are saying "that
which fills in the first (or second, respectively) place of
that-previous-bridi", the same as "lo gerku" means "that which fills
in the first place of ____ gerku ____"

> .i mi klama lo zarci lo mi selxa'u la mein strit lo relxilma'e

>
> Now, "go'i", "se go'i", "te go'i", etc... could all be translated as "it"
> where "it" refers to "myself", "the store", "my home", "main street", and
> "the bike" from the previous utterance? I didn't know go'i could be that
> flexible.

 "LO go'i", etc.

>
> so if:ÂÂ "la djan pu tcidu la nicte cadzu" then I could say "mi djica lo nu
> mi tcidu la'e se go'i" for "I want to read that too"?

No, you would just use "lo (or le) se go'i", not "la'e".  You want to
actually refer to the thing known by the name nicte cadzu, not
whatever that thing is referring to (which might mean, for example, a
book that was mentioned in the story, but you would be really be
inviting misunderstanding....)  But even better and simpler in this
case would simply be "ri" or "ny".  (The last sumti mentioned or the
last sumti starting with N mentioned)


>
> which brings me to another question, how can you say "la luk bergen"? My
> name is made up of two cmene but how do people know that "bergen" falls
> under the "la". If a cmene has two names can the "ku" no longer be elided?
>

  "la" can be followed by any number of cmevla (words ending in a
consonant).  It will all be considered one name.  The ku is still
elidable.  It can be also followed by any brivla, but then it will
almost certainly need to be terminated with a ku (or do'u, etc,
depending on the context).



> - Luke Bergen
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > hmm, so let's suppose the conversation:
>> > jon doesn't enjoy rock climbing.
>> > he does it anyway though.
>> >
>> > how would I express "it" in this context?
>> >
>> > I see this being maybe "la jon na prami (what word for enjoy?) lo nu
>> > rokci
>> > cpare .i ku'i la jy se go'i". Or maybe "se di'u". Neither of those
>> > look
>> > right though. It feels like there should be a way for saying "put the
>> > referent of the x2 place of some other utterance <HERE>"
>>
>> Âla jon na zanfri lo nu rokci cpare (or "cpare lo rokci" to be more
>> precise) .iku'i jy Â(NOT "la jy". "jy" is already a sumti by itself,
>> "J") zukte lo se go'i
>>
>> ÂLet's go through this step by step:
>> la jon <-- x1 of "nelci"
>> na <-- "not", Ânegates the whole bridi
>> zanfri <-- "enjoys"
>> lo nu cpare lo rokci <- "rock climbing", the x2 of zanfri
>> .i Â<-- sentence break
>> jy <-- "J", the x1 of zukte, refers back to "la jon"
>> zukte <-- "does act"
>> lo se go'i <-- the x2 of the previous bridi, which is now the x2 of
>> this sentence
>>
>> Â Â Â Â Â --gejyspa
>>
>>
>>
>
>