Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Jingle Bells song

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 4:34 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, December 26, 2011 11:07:40 PM UTC+4, lincro wrote:
I would suggest that a sleigh is not a sakli carce (a slippery/slipping cart) but a [te] skiji carce.

As to your question:
Is it really so ? If {je} binds all arguments if selbri then how can the phrase
7.6) melbi je cmalu nixli bo ckule
exist ?
Are melbi2 and cmalu2 now the same ?
As for selbri with different number of arguments they definitely don't get extra arguments.

There they are part of a tanru. You in fact have no defined arguments at all, and when you did have them, they would be the arguments for ckule, not those of melbi or cmalu.

So is it possible to say {.u'i se janbe je vitno} ?

Certainly it's possible. It means "<amusement> A bell sound-and-permanent thing!" (although why you introduced the idea of permanence into the song, I'm not sure. Because of "...all the way"? If so, I'd suggest ".i ve'e janbe se / sance.ije nu" (or ve'e->"vi'i" or "ze'e")

Now I suggest more alternative translations.

.u'i se janbe je
vitno .ije nu
mi se sakli marce fo
lo pamei xirma ku

An event of YOU being a sliding-surface type of vehicle propelled by a single horse? Funny, you don't look it!

.i se sakli marce
fo lo pamei xirma ku
.i mi klama fo lo

snime foldi .iu

I think your meter isoff on this one, although your meaning is fine

Or:
.u'i lo janbe ku
sance ca lo nu
mi se sakli carce fi
lo pamei xirma ku

Sorry, same as before. A bell is not a sound.

You didn't like my suggestion of sakli -> skiji?

--gejyspa

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 9:52 AM, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 24 December 2011 14:53, gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:16:41 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Gru, 12:10, gleki <gleki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Some notes:
>> > > * shouldn't it be {te tonga} or {se janbe}? The former is easier to
>> > > fit in the rhythm.
>> >
>> > I agree that in lojban the bell and the sound it emits are
>> > interconnected.
>> > But just singing {janbe lo'e} is a bit strange.
>>
>> What would you achieve by {lo'e} here? I don't get it.
>
> I just mean that sound and bell meanings are in one gismu therefore in
> lojban we can do with only one word as opposed to English.
> So {janbe lo'e} is {bell producing typical sound} as x2 of janbe is the
> sound so there is no need in tonga in such case.

You got it wrong. {lo'e} is a gadri, in the same sema'o as {lo} and
{le}. {lo'e janbe} is a typical bell, while {janbe lo'e} is no more
grammatical than {janbe le}.
I suppose you wanted to use {zu'i}. (I haven't seen it used so far)

>> {je} and its friends are deceitful. They bind all the arguments of
>> connected selbri (I'm not sure what happens when they have different
>> numbers of arguments). So when you say {janbe je vitno}, it implies
>> that the sound of bells and the property in which they're eternal is
>> the same thing, and I doubt you can pass sound as a property.
>>
> Is it really so ?

OK, sorry, it's an open question, as I was told some time ago. But
it's weird to me.
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/browse_thread/thread/9f7cbbf176743206

> Not considering this song what is your translation of the phrase {eternal
> sound produced by a bell} ?

I would translate it as {lo vitno sance be lo janbe} or {lo vitno se
janbe} (or cimni instead of vitno? I don't know)

>
>> Also, I suggest changing the second half of the refrain to
>>
>> u'i se salcarce fi
>> lo pamei xirma ku
>>
>> Unless you like it less than your version, of course.
>>
>
> OK, now there are two authors. .ui.
> I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement.
> Then in your version you can change the first {u'i} to {ni'o} to avoid
> tautology

It's nice that you like it! {se salcarce} is quite a tongue twister
though, isn't it?

mu'o mi'e ianek

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/-2aQGIkx0g8J.

To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.