On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Jonathan Jones
<eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
You're right. I used the wrong word. But your original suggestion wasn't correct, either.
I wasn't aware that I had used ralte in relation to anyone's pets, but I see now I did do that in #26. That will have to be fixed.
Fine, but what's the general valsi for "have" in the sense used here, which is neither hold, nor possess, nor retain? Are you suggesting that every instance of "<x1> srana lo <bridi>" be changed to "<x1> se <bridi>"?
There is no single lojban word which means the English "have" in all its senses (my Merriam Webster lists over 13.) Indeed, I'm surprised that Ceqli does have such a thing. In most cases, such as "I have a house/car/pet/hat", possession is indicated, and "ponse" is correct. In cases of indicating holding something ("I have a gun"), "jgari" would be correct" To indicate a general relationship between two things, the actual nature of the relationship should be indicated ("I have a brother", "I have a head" -> "mi se bruna" "mi se stedu")
I didn't say "all" senses. I said "this" sense, and you didn't answer my question. Based on your response, I'll assume your answer would be "yes".
I do not consider it to be useful as a primer- I don't even consider the original Ceqli one to be useful as a Ceqli primer. It was my intent to hold as close as possible to the original, but I knew before I started that an exact "word-by-word translation" wasn't going to be possible.
I see your point. There are no points where verba could not be replaced with panzi.
On another note, where the /hell/ where you two months ago, when I was /asking/ people for help with the translation, and submitting my translation for review? Why did you wait until the project was finished and has been downloaded 230+ times to bring these up?
Well, I did actually write my first note about it on Mar. 16 on your original thread, and I also commented when the first 10 panels were released. Did I have the time to look up the original comic and compare your long draft to it? No, not really (as indicated by the fact that my current response came two weeks after the last comment on this thread), but so many other people were commenting on it, and to be honest, it seemed like you really weren't interested in taking their constructive criticism (your responses ran along the lines of "I know I'm wrong, but I don't care"), so I figured why should I bother wasting my time? Anyway, it was easier to see it in the actual strip, like Renato had done.
No, my responses ran along the lines of "what you're complaining about is petite". What you're talking about right now is not petite. It's pretty damned important points, actually. Also, I did actually take a lot of the feedback into consideration- the whole thing with using unassigned ko'a, for example- but it turned out that the proposed alternative was actually /worse/ than what I had in some of those cases, so I reverted. I have never refused to make a change when I knew that I was wrong- I have disagreed that some things were wrong. But I have never in my life, in anything, been wrong and decided to continue being so. If it is shown to me that I am wrong, whether it be through other people showing me, as you did with the pet ralte use and the panzi<->verba thing, or by my own furtherance of knowledge, or what-have-you, I will immediately endeavor to be right. I may be stubborn, but I'm not stupid, and refusing to reverse one's stance in the face of overwhelming evidence is stupid.
On that note, I am going to make your suggested changes. I just wish you had said something before the involved panels had been made, because it's a hell of a lot less effort to make changes /before/ production than /after/.
--gejyspa
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )