Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: "He was made much of at school."

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

   Sometimes, but sometimes they are not.  And even the exact SAME tanru can mean different things at different times.  Tanru are inherently ambiguous.  That being said, "la tam barda gerku" states that Tom is a dog, of a type that is "big somehow related to dog".  The usual conclusion (and it may not be the right one) is "la tam gerku .ije la tam barda fi lo gerku".  "la tam gerku barda" however means that Tom is a big thing, and that bigness is of type "dog that is somehow related to being a big thing".  Hence that is usually interpreted as "la tam barda fi lo gerku", Tom is big when compared to dogs.  (He is big-dog sized).

              --gejyspa

 

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually it means that he is the most at being the most :-p

But you catch my drift.  It seems like there are many lujvo that maybe have an elided {je} and there's really no telling whether it's a {broda zei brode} or a {brode zei broda}.  Or maybe the difference between the two is negligible.

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

  Pretty good argument.  But there is one problem with that.  "la tam cu barda fi lo gerku" means that Tom is big for a dog, but it doesn't mean that he necessarily IS a dog.  He could be a chicken who is bigger than an average dog.  Whereas "la tam cu traji lo ka traji" means that Tom is both superlative and correct.

 

          --gejyspa

 

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

see herein lies the confusion (for me anyway).  I could use a similar argument about lo barda gerku.  {barda} has an x3 place for the "norm" compared against which the object is big.  {gerku} has no place to denote size, so maybe it should be {lo gerku barda}?  I'm reductio ad absurdam-ing here so don't take this as a proposal that "the big dog" should be translated "lo gerku barda".  I'm just trying to get my finger on the precise way of deciding what the "principle" component of a tanru should be.

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:

On 19 November 2010 17:17, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: 

  That may be the case in English but in lojban, we have the fact that "traji" carries with it a property piece, wheras "drani" does not carry with it a corresponding "degree" piece.  Therefore, it behooves us in lojban to make "traji" the main bridi in that case.

                        --gejyspa

Well then that.

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