[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[lojban-beginners] Re: le darlu

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:43:22 -0700 (PDT), Jorge "Llambías <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar> wrote: 



la iuvál cusku di'e


1) "Good morning"
I didn't really know how to tackle this. The {a'o nu xamgu cerni} I've used still doesn't seem right to me. Doesn't it in fact say "[I am hopeful], something is an event of something being a good morning", which asserts that an event of good morning occured, occurs, or will occur, instead of wishing for it?
In my opinion, it is a misconception that a'o plus something is an assertion plus a feeling of hope. It is rather the expression 
of a hope. The {nu xamgu cerni} is hoped for, not asserted.
I've reread some of CLL (the beginning of chapter 13), and it appears to agree. Seems like I missed the distinction the CLL makes between pure emotion indicators and propositional attitude indicators. 


[...]

[...]
2) {mi djica lenu mi darlu}. The {le} does not seem right for the same reason I've mentioned earlier - that the event of arguing does not (yet) exist. 

I agree.


Using {lo} seems even worse in that respect (though the
English uses "a"). {le'e} seems appealing, since it refers to imaginary things, but the man does not say that he wishes the argument to be like other arguments he had - more probably having the best argument he had ever had would be at least somewhat satisfactory. 

I would have used {lo'e} until recently. Now I would use {lo}, but with
a more general sense than {su'o lo}. See http://www.lojban.org/wiki/index.php/XS%20gadri%20proposal and discussion thereof if you are _really_ interested. Also there is lots of discussion in the jboske@yahoogroups.com list. 



I've read that bit (though I skipped most of the following discussion).
It seems like a very elegant (though at first blatantly counterintuitive) idea, but I don't see how it relates to the sentence at hand. Perhaps I misunderstood what is meant by "Kind". 

I'm still using {le} because it seems to me to be closest in meaning.

Apart from that, I've corrected the translation according to your comments,
and translated some more. Thanks for all the comments.
I had two other instances of the {lenu } problem, where I used {le}, and in one occasion I used {lo} as is described in the proposal you dircted me to. 

I've made some lujvo for stuff I came across in the translation and
couldn't find on jbovlaste. They are:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 
mucus - zbiselvikmi - x1 is mucus/snot from x2 [body]
close - ga'ogau - x1 closes portal/passage/entranceway x2, preventing access to x3 
     by x4

fester - labyblupra - x1 [body organ] festers/is inflamed, producing pus x2
stench - xlapan - x1 is stench/stink emitted by x2 and detected by observer/sensor x3
insult - malsku - x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for audience x3 via expressive medium x4, where x1 considers x2 to be offensive/abusive towards x3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 

The place structure of {ga'ogau} is based on that of {kargau}.
I've used {mi pu vi klama} for "I came here". Is there a way of filling {klama}'s x2 
with something {vi}-ish to express that more precisely?

Here is what I have now:

Original:
========================================

A man walks into an office.
Man: Good morning, I'd like to have an argument, please. Receptionist: Certainly, sir. Have you been here before? Man: No, this is my first time. Receptionist: I see, well we'll see who's free at the moment. Mr. Bakely's free, but he's a little bit concilliatory. No. Try Mr. Barnhart, room 12. Man: Thank you. 
He enters room 12.
Angry man: WHADDAYOU WANT? Man: Well, Well, I was told outside that... Angry man: DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED EVIL PAN OF DROPPINGS! Man: What? A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS STUFFY-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!! M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!! A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse! M: Oh! Oh I see! A: Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door. M: Oh...Sorry... A: Not at all! A: (under his breath) stupid git. 
The man goes into room 12A.  Another man is sitting behind a desk.




Translation:
=============================================

le nanmu cu nerkla le birju

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	a'o nu xamgu cerni .i mi djica lenu mi darlu e'o
le'u

.i le rinsyseljibri cusku lo'u
	fi'i vi'od'ou .i xu do vi zvati ca le purci
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	nago'i .i lenu vi co'e cu nu mi pare'u vi zvati le'u

.i ry. cusku lo'u
	je'e .i .ai mi facki ledu'u makau na'e gunka caku
	.i la mister.beiklis. na'e gunka .iku'i ri milxe toljdari .i .a'anai
	.i ko troci tu'a la mister.barn`art. pe le li pare kumfa
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	ki'e
le'u

.i ny. nerkla le li pare kumfa

.i le fengu nanmu cu to'e clite cladu cusku lo'u
	dyma djica
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	u'u uanai mi puzi te cusku ledu'u
le'u

.i fy. cusku lo'u
uunai koga'i na cusku di'u mi doi do poi se zbiselvikmi ke palci kalci panci 
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	uanai
le'u

.i fy. cusku lo'u
koga'i ga'ogau fi le labyblupra moklu bedo doi do poi tatru .i le'e simsa bedo 

cu gasnu lenu mi vamtu .i doi do kunti ke culno nazbi je se xlapan malcizra
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	ke'unai mi pu vi klama ku tezu'e lenu darlu
le'u

.i fy. na'e cladu cusku lo'u
	ua .ua .u'u vi me lonu malsku
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	ua .ua mi jimpe
le'u

.i fy. cusku lo'u
	do nitcu tu'a le li pare.abu kumfa noi se canko lo lamji
le'u

.i ny. cusku lo'u
	o'unairo'a .y. u'u
le'u

.i fy. cusku lo'u
	uu. fi'i le'u

.i fy. na'e se tirna smaji cusku lo'u
	bebna
le'u
le nanmu nerkla le li pare.abu kumfa .i le drata nanmu cu zutse co trixe le jubme 

=============================================
P.S. Some weird stuff is going on in my mailer. Did a shorter version of this message get 
posted here before this one?
P.P.S. I find the fact that "evil pan of droppings" translates into {palci kalci panci} quite amusing...