Re: [lojban] Re: loglan/lojban masses/sets

[Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>]

At 11:24 AM 5/10/04 -0700, Jorge "Llambías" wrote:
>Loglan "lea", the gigantic individual, is probably
>Lojban's {piro loi}, the whole mass.

Not recalling how things have evolved in the last 15 years, but lea, when 
first added to TLI Loglan, meant EXACTLY Lojban "ro lo ro", and was used 
for universal claims about veridical entities.  Lojban lo was in a sense 
back derived from lea, once pc explained what "veridical" meant.

>Loglan "lo" is what And once described as "the myopic
>singularizer", all the individuals considered as one
>individual (not added together as with "lea" but all
>superposed into one). For a long time I used Lojban
>{lo'e} for this as a generic. But now I am using Lojban
>{lo}, thus returning to the origins in some sense.
>
>Loglan does not have anything equivalent to {lo}
>as {su'o lo}. For that it simply uses the equivalent
>of {su'o broda}.

ba jia broda, IIRC (Lojban equivalent "da poi broda") was the closest TLI 
Loglan equivalent to lo broda.

>As far as I know it doesn't have anything like lo'e/le'e
>either.

It has loe which of used at various times for both Lojban lo'e and le'e

> > Comparing our languages we have stuck with the articles/descriptors.
> > In particular, I wonder how can I translate from Loglan to Lojban
> > {Focu mrenu} --- a quartet of persons? Is it {lo'i vo prenu} or
> > something else?
>
>With my current understanding, I'd say {lo vo prenu} for the generic
>case (as in "this is meant to be played by a quartet") or
>{le vo prenu} if you have a particular quartet in mind.

prenu vomei, with conversion to select the appropriate place of the mei 
selbri depending on whether you want a set, mass, or individuals.

TLI masses were covered by loi and lei with the quantifiers on the latter 
covering the two senses of the "two men carrying the log across the field.

lojbab

-- 
lojbab                                             lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:                 http://www.lojban.org




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