[lojban] Re: Lojban-English full dictionary effort- request for assistance

["Jorge Llambías" <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On Jan 3, 2008 5:59 PM, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
> Jorge Llambías wrote:
> >
> > For this question, only the x1 place is relevant.
>
> If there is no x2 place defined for xxxyyy then the selkemxxxyyy lujvo
> has no obvious meaning.

Right, but is that the question we were discussing?

To answer the question "will selxxxyyy be more likely understood as
sel(xxxyyy) or as (selxxx)yyy?" you only need to know what the x1
of selxxxyyy is. All lujvo I looked at in jbovlaste of form selxxxyyy are
clearly intended as (selxxx)yyy, because their x1 corresponds to
the x1 of xxxxx, not to the x2 of xxxxx.

>  If mere tens have been
> used to make meaningfully multi-placed lujvo, that is a couple of
> percent. Now we are trying to conclude how many of those lujvo will be
> used in meaningful compounds, and I see no reason why we would expect
> more than a couple of percent.  A couple of percent of "tens" could
> easily be less than 1.

Tens are the lujvo of form selxxxyyy, not those of form xxxyyy.
There must be hundreds of two rafsi lujvo. And among those tens,
not one that I could find is meant as sel(xxxyyy), they are all
(selxxx)yyy.

> Meanwhile, I just looked in one of my old lujvo files, I think Nick's
> analyzed file:
> selkemspadji
> terkemselgeimau
> are both in there with defined place structures.

Yes, those are two of the three with sel/ter/vel/xel-kem- that I
mentioned that are in jbovlaste.The third is {velkemprema'e}.

> I have no idea if these words ever saw usage or made it into jbovlaste.

Probably no usage, but I think all the lujvo from that list are in jbovlaste,
if they were in noralujv.

> Thus selkemxismalsi is English "parish"
> and terkemxismalsi is English "denomination".

Right. You need -kem-, otherwise they would most likely be
interpreted as some kind of temple.

> These lujvo will not exist until a) people want to talk about the
> subject matter, b) a place structure for the simpler term is settled, c)
> people are sufficiently confident about their lujvo making competence to
> bother making lujvo

And that's assuming people ever want to use 4-rafsi lujvo.
I think it's much more likely that {se xismalsi}, {te xismalsi}
will be preferred.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.