Re: [lojban] The proposed 'goals' of lojban

[Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>]

How about isolating 'optimization constraints' completely hierarchically?

Epcott's first three [consisting goal 1, "logical"]:
1.1 Maximize regularity (machine readable)
1.2 Maximize predictability (internal consistency)
1.3 Maximize interoperability (flexible grammar)

Then my attempts at the remaining three (from the article):

[consisting goal 2, "usable"]:
2.1 Minimize semantic ambiguity (formalized definitions)
2.2 Minimize length (brevity)
2.3 Minimize core vocabulary (simplicity)

[consisting goal 3, "unique"]
3.1 Minimize conformity to any particular natural language's
conventions (linguistic cultural neutrality)
3.2 Minimize non-empirical specification (culturally unbiased)
3.3 Minimize cultural context ('cultural neutrality' -- recursive
definition, inherently part of 2.2?)

[consisting goal 4, "backwards compatible"]
4.4 Minimize changes to the language

...I understand now the line about not caring much about backward
compatibility-- it's the last tie-breaker. I agree with it keeping
that position too. =p

co'o mi'e korbi

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 11:01, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope no one misunderstands, to think that Lojban does not already
> meet the goals set down in the essay. It does meet them. Of course
> nothing is perfect-- nor can it ever be-- but Lojban leaves other
> languages in the dust, since they do not even make the attempt.
>
> The reason we need the goals formalized is to guide in clarifying rare
> words and edge-cases. Given a set of choices on a specific issue,
> these goals act like weights on a scale to influence the decision.
>
> With that in mind, these goals will not cause the BPFK to dither
> endlessly, trying to perfectly meet the goals; rather, the goals will
> let the BPFK quickly resolve questions for which there are no answers,
> the minimum necessary to settle on a release of Lojban version 5.
>
> Goal #1 currently reads: "Lojban should be as logical (internally
> consistent, semantically complete, ??? I don't really know how to
> define this well) as possible".
>
> My suggestion for goal #1 is as follows: "Minimize rule exceptions and
> maximize how predictably the components combine." What did I miss?
>
> -Eppcott
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kevin Reid <kpreid@mac.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 5, 2010, at 20:56, 白松 Oren wrote:
>>
>>> Mission: Full expressive freedom: Any meaning expressed in a natural
>>> language can be expressed in Lojban, and at any desired level of
>>> ambiguity or precision.
>>
>>
>> We are not interested in supporting ambiguity. We are interested in
>> supporting vagueness.
>>
>> (Ambiguity is discrete; vagueness is continuous. Ambiguity means the
>> listener has to choose among distinct and possibly very dissimilar meanings;
>> vagueness means the listener gets a broad but contiguous cluster. Ambiguity,
>> if possible in the language, has to be fixed by rewriting; vagueness can be
>> fixed by adding elements.)
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Reid                                  <http://switchb.org/kpreid/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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