Re: [lojban] The proposed 'goals' of lojban

[Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>]

Oops, I meant that 2.1 (formalized definitions) precludes 'cultural
neutrality' in any sense not covered by:

> 3.1 Minimize conformity to any particular natural language's
> conventions (linguistic cultural neutrality)
> 3.2 Minimize non-empirical specification (culturally unbiased)

co'o mi'e korbi

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 12:04, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about isolating 'optimization constraints' completely hierarchically?
>
> Epcott's first three [consisting goal 1, "logical"]:
> 1.1 Maximize regularity (machine readable)
> 1.2 Maximize predictability (internal consistency)
> 1.3 Maximize interoperability (flexible grammar)
>
> Then my attempts at the remaining three (from the article):
>
> [consisting goal 2, "usable"]:
> 2.1 Minimize semantic ambiguity (formalized definitions)
> 2.2 Minimize length (brevity)
> 2.3 Minimize core vocabulary (simplicity)
>
> [consisting goal 3, "unique"]
> 3.1 Minimize conformity to any particular natural language's
> conventions (linguistic cultural neutrality)
> 3.2 Minimize non-empirical specification (culturally unbiased)
> 3.3 Minimize cultural context ('cultural neutrality' -- recursive
> definition, inherently part of 2.2?)
>
> [consisting goal 4, "backwards compatible"]
> 4.4 Minimize changes to the language
>
> ...I understand now the line about not caring much about backward
> compatibility-- it's the last tie-breaker. I agree with it keeping
> that position too. =p
>
> co'o mi'e korbi
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 11:01, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hope no one misunderstands, to think that Lojban does not already
>> meet the goals set down in the essay. It does meet them. Of course
>> nothing is perfect-- nor can it ever be-- but Lojban leaves other
>> languages in the dust, since they do not even make the attempt.
>>
>> The reason we need the goals formalized is to guide in clarifying rare
>> words and edge-cases. Given a set of choices on a specific issue,
>> these goals act like weights on a scale to influence the decision.
>>
>> With that in mind, these goals will not cause the BPFK to dither
>> endlessly, trying to perfectly meet the goals; rather, the goals will
>> let the BPFK quickly resolve questions for which there are no answers,
>> the minimum necessary to settle on a release of Lojban version 5.
>>
>> Goal #1 currently reads: "Lojban should be as logical (internally
>> consistent, semantically complete, ??? I don't really know how to
>> define this well) as possible".
>>
>> My suggestion for goal #1 is as follows: "Minimize rule exceptions and
>> maximize how predictably the components combine." What did I miss?
>>
>> -Eppcott
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kevin Reid <kpreid@mac.com> wrote:
>>> On Apr 5, 2010, at 20:56, 白松 Oren wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mission: Full expressive freedom: Any meaning expressed in a natural
>>>> language can be expressed in Lojban, and at any desired level of
>>>> ambiguity or precision.
>>>
>>>
>>> We are not interested in supporting ambiguity. We are interested in
>>> supporting vagueness.
>>>
>>> (Ambiguity is discrete; vagueness is continuous. Ambiguity means the
>>> listener has to choose among distinct and possibly very dissimilar meanings;
>>> vagueness means the listener gets a broad but contiguous cluster. Ambiguity,
>>> if possible in the language, has to be fixed by rewriting; vagueness can be
>>> fixed by adding elements.)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin Reid                                  <http://switchb.org/kpreid/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>

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