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Re: [lojban] {le} in xorlo



Tape it back up!  I may be having a flashback to an argument in Loglan umpty ump years ago.  And there may be othe reasons for not thinking that 'lo' and 'loi'  (and 'le' and 'lei') mean the same thing, give the vagueness (to be polite) of the concept of "mass".


From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 4:29:09 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {le} in xorlo

There's something about fractional quantifiers as well, but I am even less sure how that works: 
> 'pire lo'i gerku' is maybe halves of dogs for 'lo' but, I think, still a bunch of dogs half the original 
> size for 'loi'.

My brain just 'sploded a little.


On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 5:26 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ummm!  I think that the quantifiers behave differently for 'lo' and 'loi'  're lo ci gerku' is two of the three dogs acting individually but 're loi ci gerku' is a bunch of two, i.e., acting still together.  There's something about fractional quantifiers as well, but I am even less sure how that works: 'pire lo'i gerku' is maybe halves of dogs for 'lo' but, I think, still a bunch of dogs half the original size for 'loi'.



----- Original Message ----
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 1:56:40 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {le} in xorlo

----- Original Message ----

From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com

> taking some subset, those that satisfy broda.

I can't get my head round the notion of multiple referents. To my way of thinking, the referent is the group; if one derives from that the predicate "x is a member of the group referred to", then certainly the poi/noi distinction makes sense. Hence to me, KOhA poi/noi is comparable to "li mu (ku) poi/noi" (in which perhaps more clearly the poi/noi contrast would seem to be vacuous).

Welcome to the club, of sorts.  But do not despair; you can have your cake and xorxes his without more than verbal befuddlement.  The logic of multiple reference and quantification is exactly the same as the logic of L-sets (mereology, the part-whole relationship: Lesniewski, Goodman, Leonard, Quine), so saying 'some brodas' or 'a bunch of brodas' works exactly the same way (pace Ockham).





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