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Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda'



Well, now I am confused yet again.  In my rethinking, I figured out that lo cimei be lo broda would be a set of things that realized 'cimei be lo broda', that is, for every thing among lo cimei lo broda ther are two other things among lo cimei lo broda and thus all three are among lo broda.  So lo cimei be lo broda must have at least three members but might have any number at all greater than that.  Now it would seem that lo ci lo broda, since it has an internal quantifier does have exactly three members of lo broda, so it is not the same.
So ultimately the secret of getting groups of the right size in is to get away from 'lo' altogether and quantify directly on the predicates, where we get satisfaction, not mere realization,  Or, equivalently, by definition, work with 'loi' or 'lo'i' depending on how tight a structure you want.



----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, April 25, 2010 6:13:37 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda'

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 7:46 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, so I am not getting it.  'lo cimei be lo broda' is not some trios out of lo broda but just a trio out of lo broda, not in any sense different from (what used to be written as) 'ci lo broda'.

"ci lo broda" is an incomplete expression. It is an operator lacking
its operand. It means "three and only three of the referents of 'lo
broda' are such that: ..."

"lo cimei be lo broda", on the other hand, is a referring expression.
Its referents, whatever they are, are three of the referents of "lo
broda". It is equivalent to "lo ci lo broda".

The distinction between an operator with scope over a bridi, and a
simple referring expression is important.

> So how do we get references to cases of several selection, each of them a trio, say?

By quantifying over gunma/girzu/bende etc instead of over brodas. "re
gunma be ci lo broda" is "two groups of three of the brodas are such
that: ...". (If you like using "loi" or "lu'o" as shorthand for "lo
gunma be", I don't mind, but I prefer to spell it out.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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