Re: [lojban] The North Wind and the Sun

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

2010/5/7 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>> I'm not sure how to say "persuade"; there's a translation in
>> jbovlaste, but it's for "persuade that something is true", not "persuade to
>> do something".
>
> Similarly:
>
> ????: know how to do something
> ????: find out how to do something
> ????: learn to do something
> ????: teach to do something
????: remember how to do something
> ????: remember to do something
> ????: decide to do something

In fact, not all of these follow the same pattern. We have two
classes, the "knowledge class" and the "intention class".

The knowledge class includes djuno, facki, cilre, ctuca, morji...
(know, come to know, acquire knowledge of, impart knowledge of, bring
back knowledge of, etc.)

The "how to" version of the knowledge class can be obtained with "lo
du'u ta'i makau ...", although it is not really clear that an
intellectual knowledge about how something is done is equivalent
knowing how to do something in a more experiential sense (does a child
who knows how to walk, know what the method for walking is, in a djuno
sense?)

   xu lo verba cu djuno lo du'u ri cadzu ta'i ma kau
  "Does a child know how they walk?"
  "Does a child know how to walk?"

Are those two really the same questions?

The intention class includes: "intend", jdice, morji, "persuade"...
This class is even more complicated, since we don't even have a good
gismu for the basic concept "x1 intends to do x2". "ckixlu" is a nice
lujvo for "persuade", but it doesn't give us a general solution.

"decide to do" can be "come to intend to do", "remember to do" can be
"bring back the intention to do", "persuade to do" can be "make
someone intend to do", and so on, but we don't have "x1 intends to do
x2" to begin with. The best two candidates are "zukte" and "platu",
but "zukte" relegates the intention to x3 and has an x2 that doesn't
really belong, and "platu" has a rather hard to figure out place
structure.

So, how do we say:

x1 intends to do x2
x1 decides to do x2
x1 remembers to do x2
x1 forgets to do x2

Anyone wants to run the gismu making algorithm to see what comes out
for "intend"?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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