Re: [lojban] Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof

[Jameson Orndorff <jtorndorff@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:03 AM, H. Felton <fagricipni@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you are saying that
> "lo cipni cu klama la bastn. la .atlantas. le dargu le karce"
> should be expressed as
> "lo cipni ku klama la bastn. ku la .atlantas. ku le dargu ku le karce ku"
> ; ie, with *all* those "ku"s, then I disagree quite vehemently

I also disagree quite vehemently, as {la .atlantas. ku}* is not
grammatical. {ku} only works on {la} if it's taking a selbri, not if
it's taking a cmevla. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on
you, but this is another sort of thing we try to emphasize in our
teaching as well. (This may also be more of a point that selbri names
aren't well taught in the 'original method' either.)

To add another anecdote, as one of the primary proponents of
terminator-first teaching, I have to say that the other prime focus of
the way we (and I) teach now is the *order* in which things are
taught. This, perhaps more than simply the terminators, has been a
great boon for us.

As for the effectiveness, sure, we don't have much data. All I have to
add is that in my personal experience, and I believe xalbo's as well,
as people who learned from CLL / L4B / speakers taught from those
sources, I feel far more comfortable navigating more complex jufra now
that I've embraced terminators for what they are. YMMV as usual.

Going to the point of places where you are debating {cu} vs 5
terminators, obviously {cu} is the better choice. You won't always
have that luxury, though. What if you are laying out a thoroughly
complicated x2 and then realise you want to add an x3 that will
require a lot of termination? Obviously if you're typing, which
probably consists of the majority of lojban nowadays, a quick
transplant to before the selbri and a {cu} and you're safe, but in
speech, you don't have that luxury. To me, 'it's hard or infrequently
used' isn't a good argument in any case.

I often prefer {ku} to {cu} in many situations as well, if anything
for consistency. Consider: .i lo nu mi broda ku brode lo du'u do brodi
ku le brodo or something like that.

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