Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Robin Lee Powell
<rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>
> I'm telling you that I would never back-translate {tatpi} as "tired
> of".

I think the difference between English "tired from X" and "tired of X"
is that in the first case X is over and in the second case X is still
ongoing.

So I would translate "tatpi lo nu ba'o co'e" as "tired from having
Xed" and "tatpi lo nu ca'o co'e"a "tired of Xing".

If you are running, you can say "I'm tired of running, let's stop for
a while". If you have been running, you can say "I'm tired from having
been running, so I won't go out".

> When asked to backtranslate what you have by Lindar, what I
> came up with was "Alice began to be tired by sitting on the river
> bank next to her sister and doing nothing.", which is not at all the
> same as being tired *of* same.

I guess "lo nu zutse" can be interpreted as "having sat" or as "be
sitting", but if you interpret that she is still sitting there I think
the more idiomatic English form is "tired of".

> So, you can keep doing what you're doing, but I, at least, am not
> going to understand it very well.
>
> Ah, here's the crux of it I think: tatpi has "x1 needs/wants rest";
> clearly, resting wasn't going to solve this problem, as resting *was
> the problem*.  That's exactly it: tatpi is for problems that
> resting/ceasing doing something will solve, and this isn't one of
> them.

Well, falling asleep was the solution, and that's a kind of resting.

When x2 is over, what x1 needs/wants may be to rest, but when x2 is
still ongoing, what x1 needs/wants most, even before resting, is that
x2 stops.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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