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Re: [lojban] Re: mistakes
Let me clarify. The point I was making with the imaginary discussion of jbocre was not that we are harshly overly critical but rather that we are somewhat ADD.
Thanks for pointing out the beginners list And, sometimes I forget that it's there due to it's often similar content to the main list. What would be nice, is if the conversation went more like:
(on lojban beginners):
jbonintadni: hey, how would I say X?
jbocre .abu: I would do something like "ko'a broda"
jbocre .by: That would work, I'd probably do "ko'a broda do'e lo brode" but either one should be ok
(on lojban main):
jbocre .by: So a question was raised on beginners, let's jbodau
jbocre .abu: See, here's where you're wrong .by. You told that nintadni that blah was good (and I suppose it would get the point across) but rabble rabble rabble
...
jbocre .vy: ROLDEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIII!
This way the excruciatingly detailed debates over finer points of deep grammar and gismu choice don't scare off the little ones accidentally.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:13 PM, And Rosta
<and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:
Lindar, On 23/10/2010 00:19:
Can we discuss ways to cooperate and make criticism less apparent?
I would like everybody to do me a big favour. Even if you've read both
of those (however many times), please read both of them one more time.
Tell me what you think, tell me your ideas for how we can start
implementing these ideas to make a more harmonious Lojbanistan.
I struggle to see the relevance of the Perfection Game. It could be relevant to the ongoing perfection of Lojban, if there were such a thing as the ongoing perfection of Lojban, but there isn't. If what's meant is the achievement of error-free Lojban usage, what sort of person would choose to learn Lojban, with its focus on logic, explicit rules, and so forth, yet wish the mistakes in their utterances to not be pointed out to them?
As for "Why our kind can't cooperate", I think it's mostly bollocks. Of course totalitarianism is better at delivering concerted action than pluralism is. But it's my impression that "the atheist/libertarian/technophile/sf-fan/early-adopter/programmer/etc crowd" is conspicuously interested in seeking optimal voting methods and consensus-forming techniques. Or take the trade union movement, very much a child of the Enlightenment, born both of rationalism and of passion, and achieving monumental feats of cooperation.
Lojbanistan seems pretty harmonious to me, now only an occasional visitor. But if it's not, what's wanted? Harmony for harmony's sake? Why? Why not just freedom of _expression_ coupled with mutual respect? Harmony for the sake of greater goals? Which goals? Is there harmonious agreement on goals?
IIRC, the Lojban-beginners list was set up as a forum for people to practice in a supportive nonthreatening environment free from overzealous highly technical critiques of the sort I was guilty of so much of. But that was a specially designated kindergarten environment -- a good place to have, but you wouldn't want it to take over the whole country.
--And.
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