English is not predicate logic (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language))

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 12:11:01AM +0100, Ivo Doko wrote:
> On 5 January 2011 23:05, Robin Lee Powell
> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>wrote:
> 
> > > As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is
> > > *broken*, pardon me, I only said that it isn't finished,
> >
> > You did, actually:
> >
> >  it's a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which
> >  lojban is very far from being at the moment
> >
> > "far from functioning" is very different from "incomplete".
> 
> 
> You have misquoted me. 

That's a cut and paste, so I find that unlikely.

> My words were, as you quoted them correctly the first time:
> 
>   "[Esperanto is] a fully defined, complete and functioning
>   language, which lojban is very far from being at the moment."
> 
> So what I *have* said about lojban, is that it's "far from being a
> fully defined, complete and functioning language", not just that
> it's "far from functioning".

In the dialect of English I speak, "A is far from being X, Y, and Z"
means the same thing as "A is far from being X" and "A is far from
being Y" and "A is far from being Z".

If that's not what you meant, I apologize for responding to
something other than what you intended.  That really is the *only*
meaning I can see from the English, though.

Feel free to use Lojban next time.

Just turned to the person next to me: "If I say, "that computer is
far from pretty and functional and cheap", what have I just accused
it of?".  The response: "That it's ugly and broken and expensive."

This is even more extreme, to me, when it's "A is X, Y, and Z, which
B is far from being at the momment".  I'm really surprised that a
native English speaker would take that to mean something other than
"B is not X" and "B is not Y" and "B is not Z".

This is why we're hear, because English does that.

> I have to say that I'm disappointed and surprised at the same time at the
> irony of having my words so terribly misinterpreted and misunderstood by a
> lojban enthusiast.

Again, I'm sorry for responding to something other than what you
said, but you have no basis for acting like your interpretation is
*clearly* correct, as so far more people have disagreed than agreed.

So, let's just move on, shall we.

I'm tempted to ask what you *were* trying to say, if it wasn't that,
but I don't actually *care*; I had a point to make about the
generally pessimistic and perfectionist attitude in this community,
and I've made it, and I'm pretty much done at this point.

-Robin

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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