Re: [lojban] non-ka properties

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>]

ta'onai

2011/6/18 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> 2011/6/18 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>>
>> Clarifying: I was not marking the return value with {ce'u}, I understand
>> it marks the argument. I was expressing the return value as the x1 of
>> {broda} when saying {lo broda be ce'u}.
>
> I think your using "se stuzi" when you meant "stuzi" is what confused me.
>

Yeah, sorry.

And thank you very much for the many examples.
Only one particular use of ka-makau made me feel uneasy:
as the x2 of {cipra}:
>
> ".i ny ca'o tolylau sezysku «lu vajni .i tolvajni .i tolvajni .i vajni
> li'u» tai lo nu cipra lo ka ma kau pe ce'u xagmau kei lo valsi"
>
> ".i my te zu'e lo nu cipra lo ka ma kau kukte ce'u kei gy cu bevri lo
> so'i te cuxna noi preja punji ke'a lo to'e cnino karni"
>

From the gimste, I would describe a se cipra as a pure ka, non-kau,
property. That is, in a cipra the te cipra is tested for whether it
satisfies a certain predicate, specified by the se cipra (or for how well
does it satisfy that predicate, in a fuzzy approach).

Reading a ka-makau makes me wonder if the cipra is being interpreted
as some kind of measure of what stands in the place indicated by {makau}.

Well, at least in the first example, this is not the case. The original
passage reads
  "and went on to himself in an undertone, `important--unimportant--
   --unimportant--important--' as if he were trying which word sounded best."

Personally, and keeping the original approach, I would translate the
tai argument as
  {lo cipra be lo ka xagrai bei lo valsi},
(the omission of the {nu} is a separate discussion)


ni'o
A second issue, which has been in my mind since I first considered
the kau approach: How does {ka broda} compare to {ka xukau broda}?

(My current understanding still is that they mean the same)

Good enough, we already have a concrete example (which, by the way,
also involves a {nu cipra}):
>
> ".i na banzu fa lo temci lo nu gy cipra fi lo re ninmu fe lo ka xu kau
> zukte fi lo nu xendo"
>

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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