Re: [lojban] Gerunds, infinitives and other technicalities

[tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>]

2011/7/30 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:20 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I consider lifri1 as the theoretical x2 of "fasnu":
>>
>>  ko'e lifri ko'a <-- ko'a fasnu ko'e
>>  kohe experiences koha <-- koha happens to kohe
>
> Do you think an event must necessarily happen TO someone or something,
> or can it just happen?

It can just happen, in which case the hypothetical fasnu2 would still
represent a (mereological) part of the event. I would consider the
following compatible:

  lo nu mi viska ta cu fasnu
  the event "I see that thing" happens

  lo nu mi viska ta cu fasnu mi
  the event "I see that thing" happens to me

  lo nu mi viska ta cu fasnu ta
  the event "I see that thing" happens to that thing

"happens *to*" involves an arbitrary focus. The same with lifri1:

  mi lifri lo nu mi viska ta
  I experience the event "I see that thing"

  ta lifri lo nu mi viska ta
  that thing experiences the event "I see that thing"


> Even languages like English with obligatory syntactic subjects have
> expressions like "it's raining", "it was cold", "it's late", and so on
> where "it" is just a syntactic filler (much like "zi'o"). Do we really
> need to say that those events happen to someone or something?

No, we don't. That's why I called my fasnu2 'theoretical'. And lifri1
too is unnecessary, because it can appear inside lifri2 and can be
optionally emphasized with "ba'e" etc., if that's the planned purpose
of having it as the x1.


> I think it's a pity that Lojban doesn't have any zero argument gismu
> because it helps hide the fact that zero argument predicates are
> perfectly reasonable things to have.
>
> And even in a case like "ko'a dunda ko'e ko'i", we can see that as
> something experienced by ko'e, something experienced by ko'i, even
> something experienced by ko'a who is also the agent. But if we have
> those three perspectives available, shouldn't we have a fourth
> perspective where it is something that just happens?

I'd love to have that.

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