Re: [lojban] footnotes, etc?

The medium is not the message. The message is in Lojban: the medium may be voice or print and the print may be Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, Devanagari, Tengwar or what have you -- it doesn't matter. But, from a printed text or a presentation which aids, we do not say in Lojban the specifications of the charts, graphs or lists used. No more should we then say the footnoting (or for that matter the alphabet being used -- something still in Lojban somewhere). You might as well say the type of paper being used and include that in your Lojban, or the pagination or the type face. Footnotes are tools for presenting a message, not part of the message itself.

From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] footnotes, etc?

That's one of the foundations of Lojban, though. It shouldn't be just brushed aside.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:

> lojbanic principles? I remember one of the big deal ones being that for a
> given speech stream, there is one spelling for it, and vice versa.

Audiovisual isomorphism should by no means get in the way of, e.g.,
presenting information in tables or sidenotes, or writing concrete poetry.
A printed text need not correspond to a single linear stream of utterances.

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

On 12 March 2012 01:06, Marjorie Scherf <skaryzgik@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 21:35, John E. Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Point? You don't use footnotes in spoken anything. In written anything,
>> you use the standard footnote conventions. Loglan long ago (1960) had an
>> array of typesetting cmavo which were soon discarded as totally
>> irrelevant;why bring them back?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>
>
> So if I'm understanding John correctly here, I can write a book in (or
> translate a book into) lojban, use little asterisks or superscript numbers,
> and have the matching ones at the bottom of the page, and it would still be
> considered good, grammatical lojban?
>
> At first this is surprising, but when I try to think up my objections, they
> seem to come down to orthography rather than grammar. For example, an
> orthography which didn't use "Arabic" numerals probably wouldn't use them to
> mark footnotes, at least not in the ordered, numerical way they are meant
> when they are used with the Roman letters typically used for English. Though
> the same symbols may well be commandeered for use as random symbols to be
> used like asterisks. Though I don't know any actual standard conventions for
> such things in other than English, so I could be wrong even about this. But
> my point with this hypothetical example is that typesetting is much more
> closely linked to the orthography than the grammar. Supposing I or someone
> else made a whole new orthography that worked entirely differently than
> anything I've actually seen or heard of before, I'd have the exact same
> typography questions to answer all over again anyway.
>
> So I suppose the question becomes, then, would an orthography (including
> such typesetting conventions) be considered "valid" according to the various
> lojbanic principles? I remember one of the big deal ones being that for a
> given speech stream, there is one spelling for it, and vice versa. Though it
> has been a while since I read those things, and I might not be remembering
> it or it's accepted interpretation correctly.
>
> .imu'omi'e .skaryzgik.
>
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