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Re: Word changing and word creation (was Re: [lojban] bugs in jbovlaste)



On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 06:54:45AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:21 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:37:48 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote:
> >> Fine, I've just added aionys' complaints about familial gismu, and also
> >> xorxes' proposed definition of xruti. If anynone knows about other proposed
> >> changes, please check whether they're there and if not, add them.
> >>
> >
> > What's that with {xruti}? It's agentive, don't touch it!
> > Let's create another experimental gismu with the definition {x1 (agent)
> > returns to origin/earlier state x3 from x4} or possibly with another order
> > of sumti.
> > But {xruti} must retain the meaning.
> > *OTHERWISE WE'LL LOSE COMPATIBILITY WITH OLDER TEXTS.*
> >
>
[snip]
>
> Second, you are over-reacting. Also, it is my personal opinion that,
> especially in the case of xruti, breaking older text is worth not having a
> broken place structure.
>
[snip]
>
> In short, we do /not/ make new gismu unless it is /absolutely/ necessary.

FWIW, as the apparent overlord these days, I disagree, *strongly*,
with both of those points.  gismu should not be changed unless it
can be shown that particular places have been very rarely used
correctly, and I think making a bunch more gismu is a great idea.

When CLLv1.1 is done, maybe I'll have time to finish my essay on the
latter issue, and word creation in general.

-Robin

Regarding the first point, I disagree that the /only/ time to change gismu is when people don't use it right. For example, the issue with irregular place structures. No one has incorrectly used the places of these words- unless you count using a place that doesn't exist because you think it does, and I don't- but I am of the opinion that these gismu should still be changed, especially in the cases where the change would not break current texts, as in the case with the familial gismu.

Regarding the second, I was more referring to current policy than any future practices. I have little opinion on the matter myself, save that I would prefer as little overlap as possible between new and existing gismu. There are places where we are sorely lacking, I'm sure, but I don't think we need to create new gismu that are really just synonyms of existing ones.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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