Re: [lojban] lujvo for "spelling"? (was Re: [lojban-beginners] How do you write "Eyjafjallajökull"? (a sentence from tatoeba))

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12 July 2012 18:52, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Also, I have better than good reason to believe that it's NOT the
>> variable b, given the definition of me'o which I'd assumed you'd know:
>> "me'o = the mathematical _expression_ (unevaluated); convert unevaluated
>> mathematical _expression_ to sumti."
>>
>> What is the unevaluated _expression_ "2+2" ? I think it's "2+2". That
>> leads me to believe that the unevaluated _expression_ "b" is "b", even
>> if b has the value, say, 4, in which case its evaluated _expression_ is
>> "4" and not "b".
>
>
> Yes, the unevaluated _expression_ "b" is "b", however, it is the VARIABLE "b",
> NOT the LETTER "b". We're talking about mathematics here. Math doesn't have
> letters. It has constants, variables, and operations. Things REPRESENTED by
> letters are VARIABLES.

Sure, but what matters is the result, no? If I say "write the
unevaluated _expression_ 'b'" and I get a "b" on a piece of paper, and
that's what I wanted to happen, then I've succeeded, haven't I?

I would say no, because a variable is a symbol which represents a numeric value, possibly unknown, most likely changing according to circumstances, even possibly imaginary, but a value nonetheless, whereas a letter represents a phoneme. While it is true that the symbols for both /can/ be the same, it is not true that they represent the same thing. Regardless of which, /you don't need to use me'o at all/. {.i ko ciska me'o by.} Means "You! write the mathematical _expression_ 'b'." {.i ko ciska by.} means "You! write the letter 'b'."

Regardless, in a 100% lojbanic environment, the listener would just
write {by} on the paper if I told em/them/him/her {.i ko ciska me'o by
lo papri}.

In any environment where you told someone to write the variable b, they would would place a vertical line with a connecting closed loop at the bottom to the right. It's not a Lojbanic-specific thing.

Looking at the definition of {lerfu}, the gimste seems to suggest that
a letter can be referred to with {la'e zo BY}. Is it thus the case
that {la'e zo by ce'o abu ce'o...} (which is redundant to {la'e lo'u
by abu ... le'u}) is the correct way to give a letter list?

No. {zo} only quotes one word. It would either be {la'e zo by. ce'o lu .abu li'u ce'o ...} or possibly {la'e lu by. .abu ... li'u}. And I'm not saying either are "correct", except in a grammatical sense.

And, I think I should mention that you haven't answered my question.
How would you give a letter list? It's good and well to tell everyone
that they're wrong, but if you suggest no solutions, I'm afraid you're
only being unproductive.

I have answered your question. That you haven't seen it is not my fault.

mu'o mi'e la tsani

> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>

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