[lojban] Re: Any volunteers for "Phrasebook. A multilingual dictionary"? (No Lojban skills required)

[guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>]

You did not answer my question: "Do you aim at giving a phrasebook
only for English speakers?"

If yes, I intend neither to prevent English speakers talking malglico
in Lojbanistan, nor to take part in the phrasebook for English-
speaking travellers; I will leave it as it is. If no, I don't agree
with the method with English column detached to the left end because
of the reasons I have already written.

mu'o


On Sep 13, 1:01 pm, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:30:37 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:
>
> > Do you aim at giving a phrasebook only for English speakers? If so, I
> > have no interest in it; if not, I would like to make some comments.
>
> > Because the column on the left end is not Lojban but English,
> > translators translate the phrases naturally from English. This method
> > simply establishes malglico.
>
> > For example the greetings: I opine only the phrases {coi}, {co'o} and
> > {pei} are enough for the list.
>
> > Distinction of the time of a day, as well as meaning of each word used
> > in the greetings, depends on the language. For example in Japanese,
> > they use neither {xamgu} nor {cerni} but {clira} for the greeting of
> > the morning or the beginning of working time (even in the nighttime);
> > neither {xamgu} nor {lerci} nor {donri} but {lo cabdei zo'u} for the
> > greeting of the daytime; there is no specific greeting of the
> > afternoon. If you suppose non-English speakers to be readers of the
> > phrasebook, these malglico may be great defects.
>
> > If you put the column of Lojban on the left end and reduce the
> > greeting phrases to {coi}, {co'o} and {pei}, translators may produce
> > plural translations for one Lojban phrase, and it's enough for a
> > phrasebook of common use. Lojban speakers may add {xamgu}, {cerni},
> > {clira}, {lerci}, {donri} etc. as they like, but these words are
> > useless for a phrasebook of common use.
>
> > Other categories are also dotted with malglico. For example, {do nanca
> > ma --- mi li repa nanca}.
> > I opine they are talking about the lifetime, not the actual age.
>
> > {nanca} is a gismu with x2 as quantity. When we talk about a
> > continuum, the universe of discourse includes habitually the whole
> > body of the continuum. Moreover, "Numbers need never be specified, but
> > if they are specified they must be correct" (CLL 6.6). With these
> > preconditions, using the phrase {mi li repa nanca} for the actual age
> > is incorrect.
>
> > For clearness, suppose you measure the length of a canal about 500
> > metres long with your average step length. You begin with one end of
> > the canal, and walk along the bank toward the other end counting the
> > number of steps. When you come near to the middle of the canal, I ask
> > you {lo naxle cu mitre ma}. If you answer {lo naxle li remuno mitre},
> > it is simply incorrect, because the universe of discourse includes the
> > whole canal, and the length of it should be {mitre li ji'i munono}. If
> > you want to answer the length of the part you have already measured,
> > you need to mention the endpoint(s) of the measurement {ta bi'i ti li
> > remuno mitre}, or add {za'u}: {lo naxle li za'u remuno mitre}. The
> > same discussion can be applied to {nanca}. I would say {do ca ze'e pu
> > nanca ma --- li repa / mi li repa ca ze'e pu nanca} to talk about the
> > actual age, and {do nanca ma --- li za'u repa / mi li za'u repa nanca}
> > to talk about the lifetime.
>
> Please make corrections to the phrasebook. I think English should be
> detached.
>
> The general idea is that you visit any country (even if it's Lojbanistan),
> open two columns (in your mother tongue) and in the language of the country
> you are visiting. The phrasebook must give you the ability to speak
> (given that you have some knowledge of the language).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > mu'o

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