Re: [lojban] Two new gismu, "stomach" and "back of body". And a proposal for an updated method of generating gismu.

[la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>]

On Friday, November 23, 2012 9:44:03 PM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:
> Jacob Errington wrote:
> > When it comes to discussing the front of the body, we have {flira} for
> > the face, {cutne} for the chest, and {betfu} for the abdomen. Now, when
> > it comes to discussing the back, there're the (poorly formed) lujvo
> > {cutyti'e} and {befti'e}, which according to the gismu deep stucture,
> > simply mean "x1 is behind the chest of x2" and "x1 is behind the abdomen
> > of x2". With that in mind, would "back of head" be {firti'e} ? Can we
> > coin joi-based lujvo to mean frontal side and dorsal side? They could be
> > {cutyjolbe'u} and {cutyti'ekepjolkembefti'e} but that's just getting silly.
>
> When we created the gismu, we simply intended trixe for the 
> back/posterior/dorsal and crane for the front/anterior/ventral, 
> presuming that people would make lujvo if more specificity was needed 
> (e.g. to distinguish dorsal and posterior in a fish, which has the 
> spinal axis in a different direction from humans).
>
> We did not distinguish between the back direction (behind the body, not 
> part of the body) and the back part of the body - that was also to be 
> done with lujvo.  There were a variety of ideas, on how to do this so we 
> decided not to decide.  But we didn't think the distinction warranted 
> two different gismu, because in fact we didn't find such a distinction 
> was very clear in the natlangs we were looking at.

It's true that natlangs lack such distinction.  Even if fu'ivla what would be the etymology of the word required?

As for {bekpi} vs. {trixe} look at the picture of the fish from Wikipedia that ARJ provided.

What is {trixe} of that fish? Isn't it just .... tail?

however, dorsal part is obviously {bekpi}. For now we can use {tolbekpi} for ventral side until we decide what to do with a non-lujvo "ventral side".

> I'm not recommending specific lujvo now, because I suspect that 
> different solutions would apply to different problems.  A chart of terms 
> on wikipedia that was mentioned applies to vertebrates, but what about 
> other animal (and plant and whatever) forms?
>
> I'd be inclined to use one or more fu'ivla before creating a new gismu. 
>   Adding to the gismu set when it was avoidable was offensive to a large 
> segment of Lojban supporters back when we were finalizing the list, and 
> we stopped considering changes when the number of proposals to eliminate 
> gismu exceeded the number of new additions.
>
> back of head would presumable by sedyti'u to correspond to your 
> {cutyti'e} and {befti'e}.  While humans have a flira on the sedycra, one 
> can certainly imagine having a separate flira on the sedyti'u.
>
> lojbab
> -- 
> Bob LeChevalier    loj...@lojban.org    www.lojban.org
> President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

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