On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 06:53:58AM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] srana zo za'o
>
> How would you utter "ko'a keeps on running after reaching one mile"
> in your two miles example?
>
> It will depend. If the aim was to run two miles and the
> expectation was that he would do it, then {ca'o} is probably
> appropriate but not {za'o}, since he is still running the two miles.
> But if you expected him to fall out after a mile, {za'o} might be
> appropriate, since your expectation provides a (not quite) natural
> stopping point. You can play a lot with nuance here.
ok
> Also how would you translate the {na za'o surla kakne} sentence in snow white
> without za'o? ("could not continue to relax")
>
> This seems weird to me:
> Therefore it is not the case that the prince kept on being able
> to relax day and night. Presumably, he could relax if the crisis moment
> were past, so keeping relaxing seems to mean he was doing it earlier,
> which doesn't seem right.
I don't think so?
> So, not being able to relax is appropriate before
> the crisis point and thus not a matter of {za'o} before that point.
> So, I think the {za'o} is probably a mistake, but the scope problems
> still bother me a bit.
ok, we are talking about the queen here, not the prince.
The context of this sentence is as follows:
The queen is told that snow white is more beautiful than her and
becomes more and more jealous of her. _This_ is the reason why
the queen can not relax anymore (neither at day nor at night).
Could you provide a translation that seems fitting to you, please?
> > I just think this ending point is something that wasn't there before the
> > translation and I wonder how to translate these sentences without
> > introducing this point.
>
> Usually, probably {ca'o}or nothing.
Hm, maybe my definition of "ending point" is just a bit to narrow.
I just wanted to point out that the marked point does not necessarily mark
and end, but maybe context can probably bend that definition quite a lot.
You're right, if there's no need to mark /any/ point as special {ca'o}
is fine...
But then, I'm unsure about what "still" indicates in english... Maybe
it really matches {za'o} roughly?
v4hn
Attachment:
pgp9p57dqaMgv.pgp
Description: PGP signature