Re: [lojban] Alice essay

[Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com>]

Okay, I reread the relevant CLL sections and quickly overlooked the new
version. The most serious mistakes are already gone or don’t apply:
- The spelling mistakes (mostly about misspelled gismu) are gone.
- I was indeed totally wrong about “sai”. So … forget that. :D
- “ka'enai” is gone.
- “’” is not used anymore, only “'”.
- Sorry for adding some obvious lujvo to the list, like the -gau ones.
You’re right that it’s awkward to list them and I also was aware that
-gau etc. have established rules. I just forgot to filter the list
throughly.
It turns out I had a really old copy on my disk. Whoops.

But this does not mean my entire post is invalid:
- sumti raising is still used. Seriously, guys, I don’t really see a
reason to ignore the intended place structure; one could use “tu'a” or
coin a new brivla or whatever to resolve these issues.
- “KREFU” is still used and still wrong—wheather I am a nitpicker or
not. This has nothing to do with alternative orthographies, since the
text uses the standard alphabet. And the word is in all-caps for no
apparent reason. What does “KREFU”, in contrast of “krefu”, even mean?
And believe it or not, I am not an opponent of alternative
orthographies.
- Even after removing the obvious lujvo, there still remain some
non-obvious lujvo. Two of the “gasnu” and “binxo” lujvo are still not
obvious.
- It would still be better if those 3 fu'ivla had dictionary entries.
Figuring out fu'ivla from scratch may be impossible if you don’t know
the source language. For “cipnrxakuila”, I was not able to figure out
without looking into the original Alice text.
- The po'onai “definition” consists of a parenthesis inside a vague
note which is an proposal for an unfinished proposal. I suppose this is
not the best source to discuss semantics. ;-) I seem to get the point
here, but clearly the po'onai definition has to be refined.
- “lu”…“li'u” still missing. Damning or not, not using the quotes
changes the sense of the sentences. Try to read the text aloud, maybe
you’ll see (or hear) the problem here. Indentation other other
typographic conventions should never replace words in Lojban.

PS: “ka'enai” is indeed not grammatical, because it is not allowed to
construct “CAhA NAI” according to the YACC. Unless you can show me via
the YACC that “ka'enai” *is* grammatical, I will stand my ground. Ask
lojbab if you’re still not convinced.

PPS: WTF? There are seriously people who oppose a lujvo dictionary?
Man. That’s a very stupid idea. It’s so stupid, I may write another
e-mail about it.

== Appendix ==
After removing further obvious lujvo, these undefined brivla remain:
- clazengau		(not obvious, since “claze'a” is undefined)
- dutselfarbi'o		(not obvious, “dutselfa'a” is undefined)
- gunkybifce
- re'azbil
- kakcmo
- cfafanmo
- benxai
- flara'a
- kixsku
- xersku
- jetsku
- cfacku
- dzikla
- galvi'a
- titydja
- geirkrixa
- zbikre
- dricmo
- ricmei
- gerpanzi
- proki'u
- nolpratra
- cabycerni
- sezmerli
- jaurjanci
- jmaji'o
- vruva'u
- gapfa'a
- purcedra		(sounds like “history”; not sure)
- xersmadi
- daupro
- sipfru
- fagystizu
- gerpanzi		(dog-child?)
- posycu'a
- sincycau		
- fityti'i
- stuzrlongitudi	(longitude?)
- stuzrlatitudi		(latitude?)
- rirxyxirma		(hippo? but which species?)
- cipnrxakuila		(eagle? but which species?)
- tcicymlatu		(obviously that’s the chesire cat, this one
			 may be an exception)

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