Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete

Other news: about cultural gismu.

To show all cultural gismu one had to select in "klesi 2" Continents, Culture.Languages, Culture.Nationalities, Culture.Religion

However, the last class includes not only examples for religion but also generic gismu like {ranmi}. Therefore I moved budjo, dadjo,jegvo,muslo,xriso and all Culture.Languages, Culture.Nationalities

to Culture.Examples.

Indeed, {spero} and {lojbo} are not only languages but cultures appeared on top of them.

However, it'd be hard to imagine {ketco} or {bemro} as a single culture. Therefore, Continents and Culture.Examples are classes that filter out all cultural gismu.

Thus now we can remove "aspect" as a role in gismu places.

2014-06-01 4:30 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

Right now in x1 space there are 188 object+event places (including "any type" places), 97 pure "event" places, 1062 "object"/"object+number" places. It'd be a huge work to determine if we can merge "event" and "object" types together in every case.

It doesn't have to be done in one day, but I think any object ko'a could be seen as the event "lo nu ko'a du ko'a", "ko'a being itself".

Before that we need to check if some proposition and property places can also take events.

E.g. kakne2 was an event place that could lead to an object place (mi kakne lo bajra) there. Now it's a property place (mi kakne lo ka ce'u du lo bajra).

Propositions can be seen as properties (mi kakne lodu'u lo no'a cu du lo bajra). What is chosen in this or that place seems to be rather arbitrary to me.

So the first step is to clearly separate events vs. propositions+properties.

Apart from them sance1 and zgike1 (have the role "sound") can be probably merged. Although I wonder if they are of "text" type too (krixa, siclu, cmoni also have "text+sound" places).

I think "sound" is way too specific to be a type. Something like "living organism", or even "container" would have many more instances than "sound". And if sance1 and zgike1 are "sound", shouldn't tonga1, voksa1, savru1 and rilti1 be as well?

rilti1 or rilti2? Or both? Also sanga2.

The problem for me is that krixa2, cmoni2 can probably be texts. And text and sound often go together.

Semantic categorization currently puts them in different classes (communication, non-linguistic utterances, Music/sound...)

Can I cusku a selsanga? That's why I wanted "sound" to be a separate type that could include both sounds and "text".

Other suspect types in x1 are:

(la'e text) for lerfu1. "la'e text" doesn't mean anything, since anything at all can be la'e text with the right text. lo lerfu cu sinxa gi'e marna, I don't think we need to treat it as a special type.

changed to "any type".

mixre

changed to "x1 (object, event) is a mixture including x2 (set of objects or events)"

/gunma

changed to "x1 (object, event) is a joint mass, team of components that are x2 (object, event)"

/kamni

kamni3 is probably a "set".

/ciste

changed

/lanzu

changed

/jenmi have x1 (mass)

changed

, while bakfu/derxi/sorcu/stura/liste/trene/linji/cecmu/bende/salta/sanmi and perhaps others don't. I don't think (mass) should be a type. These are just things that consist of a group of more or less homogeneous things and which as a group is distinctive enough to get special recognition as an emerging object.

jinga/casnu/porsi are marked as sets, I think casnu and porsi are just groups, they only need to be plural, and jinga doesn't even need to be a group

changed

, I don't get why it's marked as a set. rilti is marked as a sequence but again it should be just a group

Any example of rilti1?

What is a group according to you?

porsi1 includes {ce'o}

casnu1 includes {ce} or {jo'u}.

, it shouldn't have a sui generis type.

ckilu/sidbo are marked as "(concept)". A sidbo is a du'u, it's something that could potentially become a fact. I don't think it needs a special type. And ckilu has little to do with concepts, as far as I can tell.

What to fill ckilu1 with if not with {si'o kei}?

pincivi is marked as "(body)"

fixed

, which seems strange given that vikmi/vamtu/sputu/kafke/klaku/vasxu/citka/pinxe/xagji/taske/... are not (and should not).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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