Re: [lojban] Possession/transfer/exchange predicates

2014-06-11 2:13 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

punji2 or punji3 being a property?

With the "property as a portable possession" metaphor, punji2 could be a property of punji3.

That's the metaphor we've been talking about for all those gismu where that the gismu list makes the "pedantically"comment.

With the "property as a location" metaphor, used for example in denpa3

done. denpa3 =property of x1

and in xruti3 and xruti4 (or xruti2 and xruti3 with my preferred version of xruti),

done. {xruti} is absent from my list. {volve} (non-agentive {xruti}) is fixed.

then it would be the other way around, punji3 a property of punji2:

doi nobli .e'o ko punji lo ka virnu kei lo mi risna
"Lord, put courage into my heart!"

lo skina pu punji mi lo ka gleki cinmo
"The movie put me in a happy mood."

done. punji= x1 places or puts x2 (located, property of x3) at x3 (located, property of x2).

not sure how to use properties in {jmina}.

lo sfofa cu jmina lo ka se kufra kei lo kumfa
The sofa adds comfort to the room.

done. Well, I guess jmina3 being a property of jmina2 is impossible?

jbera2=property of x3?

Of x1 I would say.

cuxna2= any type, property of x1?

Yes (and in that case cuxna3 should also be a plural number of properties of x1.

fixed. cuxna=x1 chooses x2 (any type, property of x1) from complete set x3 (plural of same type as x2)

sarji. any examples with a property?

x4 could be a property of x1.

ferti2. is it to be a metaphor when property is used?

I don't think the line between metaphor and literalness is clear in all this.

not sure how to use {ferti2} as a property.

xaksu2?

ko'a xaksu lo ka citno

.uanai. I just can't add this example. I can consume energy but consume my property... May be better examples? This one is a metaphor and the one that I can't find analogies in English.

tisna2?

ko'a tisna lo ka jgira

tisna = x1 fills with material x2 (property of x1); x2 pours into x1

ralte2 being a property sounds strange. {mi ralte lo ka bilma}? If so it should have a different gloss rather than just "to keep".

It doesn't work well with non-agentive properties such as bilma, you need an agentive property, a property that x1 could be responsible for keeping:

ko'a ralte lo ka catke lo karce

fixed.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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