[lojban-beginners] Re: metaphorical poor

[Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>]

On Friday 04 September 2009 03:41:36 Alexandre Dezotti wrote:
> >  > You might wonder why i need this...
> >  > Well, i'm trying to learn by translating things. And so, i'm wondering
> >  > if there is a place where people work together in translating (somehow
> >  > classical) texts, one could show the translation and people say if one
> >  > should change things etc.
> >
> > If it's not too long, you can probably send it to this list and ask
> >  for comments.
>
> Well, i only TRIED to translate the first sentence, this is a poem of
> François Villon (1431-1463?) : "Frères humains".
>
> Here is the original (old) french version :
>
> Freres humains qui apres nous vivez
> N'ayez les cuers contre nous endurciz,
> Car, se pitie de nous pauvres avez,
> Dieu en aura plutot de vous merciz.
> ...
>
> (compare http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballade_des_pendus)
>
> With english translation :
>
> Brothers and men that shall after us be,
> Let not your hearts be hard to us:
> For pitying this our misery
> Ye shall find God the more piteous.
>
> (from http://www.everypoet.com/Archive/poetry/Francois_Villon/index.htm)
>
> And the following is my lojban "translation", i put the worst parts
> into brackets :
>
> doi remna tamne noi ba mi'a jmive
> na ko [iunai cinmo fi mi'a]
> ki'u lo nu [dai cinmo fi uu mi'a ]
> cu rinka le nu fi la cev. [zabna] fe do
>
> i won't translate the following part within a while, i'll concentrate
> on simpler things...
>
> Any comment and improvement are wellcome.

This poem is certainly easier to understand than "Saupicquez, frenans de gours 
arques"! If I said "saupicquez" today, I'd be accused of mixing languages, 
which I do all the time the other way (e.g. "soviente"). And the rest I don't 
understand at all.

I don't quite understand how someone in the future can have a hard or soft 
heart to us. Pharaoh was hard-hearted to the Israelites, but they lived at 
the same time.

The first line is correct.

"na ko" has to be "ko na", unless "ko" is going to be an internal sumti 
(e.g. "le cnirango be ko") or possessor ("le ko cnirango").

I don't think "iunai" is right for a hard heart. It's "uucu'i", but you want a 
brivla here.

Pierre