On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Jonathan Jones
<eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
Fine, but what's the general valsi for "have" in the sense used here, which is neither hold, nor possess, nor retain? Are you suggesting that every instance of "<x1> srana lo <bridi>" be changed to "<x1> se <bridi>"?
There is no single lojban word which means the English "have" in all its senses (my Merriam Webster lists over 13.) Indeed, I'm surprised that Ceqli does have such a thing. In most cases, such as "I have a house/car/pet/hat", possession is indicated, and "ponse" is correct. In cases of indicating holding something ("I have a gun"), "jgari" would be correct" To indicate a general relationship between two things, the actual nature of the relationship should be indicated ("I have a brother", "I have a head" -> "mi se bruna" "mi se stedu")
I didn't say "all" senses. I said "this" sense, and you didn't answer my question. Based on your response, I'll assume your answer would be "yes".
Well, the point I was trying to make is that lojban would consider "I have a hand" and "I have a head" to be to DIFFERENT senses of a word glossed in English as "have" because one is "being-with-hand" and one is "being-with-head". So I am not suggesting that "every instance of '<x1> srana lo <bridi>' be changed to '<x1> se <bridi>'" Only where '<x1> se <bridi>' is in fact what you are trying to convey.
Well, I did actually write my first note about it on Mar. 16 on your original thread, and I also commented when the first 10 panels were released. Did I have the time to look up the original comic and compare your long draft to it? No, not really (as indicated by the fact that my current response came two weeks after the last comment on this thread), but so many other people were commenting on it, and to be honest, it seemed like you really weren't interested in taking their constructive criticism (your responses ran along the lines of "I know I'm wrong, but I don't care"), so I figured why should I bother wasting my time? Anyway, it was easier to see it in the actual strip, like Renato had done.
No, my responses ran along the lines of "what you're complaining about is petite". What you're talking about right now is not petite. It's pretty damned important points, actually. Also, I did actually take a lot of the feedback into consideration- the whole thing with using unassigned ko'a, for example- but it turned out that the proposed alternative was actually /worse/ than what I had in some of those cases, so I reverted. I have never refused to make a change when I knew that I was wrong- I have disagreed that some things were wrong. But I have never in my life, in anything, been wrong and decided to continue being so. If it is shown to me that I am wrong, whether it be through other people showing me, as you did with the pet ralte use and the panzi<->verba thing, or by my own furtherance of knowledge, or what-have-you, I will immediately endeavor to be right. I may be stubborn, but I'm not stupid, and refusing to reverse one's stance in the face of overwhelming evidence is stupid.
For example on the issue of "la" vs. "zo" in regards to the x1 "cmene" you were told you were flat-out wrong about it by many people and yet you dug in your heels for the longest time about it.
I did say I was stubborn, didn't I?
(on the issue of petty complaints, btw, the word is "petty", not "petite" ;-) )
"Petty" is the wrong spelling but the correct pronunciation, "petite" is the correct spelling but the wrong pronunciation. "Petite" is a French word meaning "small".
Yes, "petite" is the French for small, however, the English word "petty", which is derived from the French, is the correct spelling for what you are trying to convey. To quote from Merriam Webster's 11th collegiate:
2
: having little or no importance or significance
3
: marked by or reflective of narrow interests and sympathies :small-minded
...
Examples of PETTY
-
a petty argument about grammar
It is definition 2 (or perhaps 1) that you are looking at here, and is directly conveyed by their example.
(Have I mentioned that I am an editor over at an English language website for about 8years? ;-) )
Incidentally, I didn't stress that I DO appreciate the work you have done, and don't mean to denigrate it in any way. Your translation of the comic is of great importance.
--gejyspa