Re: [lojban-beginners] Just to double check, about {da} and quantifiers

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Please explain further.  I'm not sure I understand how "lo no broda"
> is "complete" and "ro lo no broda" is "incomplete"?

For sensible values of PA, "lo PA broda" is complete in the sense that
you don't need anything else to understand what it means. It's like
"ta", or "mi", or any (unquantified) sumti. It's a pointer to one or
more things in the universe of discourse. PA tells you how many. "lo
no broda" would have to be a pointer that doesn't point to anything.

"PA lo broda", on the other hand, (or "PA ta", or "PA do", or any
other quantified sumti) doesn't have a meaning until you use it in a
bridi. because what the quantifier says is how many of the values of
the sumti make the bridi true. Without a bridi, the quantifier doesn't
tell us much.

"ci ta" means "three of those things are such that ...", "no ta" means
"none of those things are such that ...". In both cases it's
incomplete. In both cases you are referring to those same things, but
three of them what? None of them what?


>  That being said, I think that maybe I could in fact believe that
> "zo'e gerku je mlatu" is a meaningful utterance (although none I would
> ever say) where zo'e's "obvious from context" value is "no da".

But "no da" is not a value. In fact "no da" says "there is no value
for 'da' such that: [something or other involving the place holder
'da']"

The values of "zo'e" have to be values, not some words.

>  But I
> was willing to concede your POV that zo'e cannot be a nomei, since you
> were wiling to give me an altenate formulation of my belief.

The formulation I offered, (i.e. "no da broda .i je ro de poi broda
...") might apply to "ro lo no broda". I don't think we have a full
formulation for your plain "lo no broda" yet.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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