2011/2/18 Jorge Llambías
<jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Michael Turniansky
<
mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would say that x2 of "melbi je nixli" can be anything that is both an
> age, and a perceiver of beauty. You will certainly grant that I can
> meaningfully ask, "ma se melbi gi'e se nixli" If the answer is "no da",
> then it is "no da", but that doesn't stop the x2 from existing, merely from
> being filled in any meaningful way.
value. It is the answer that says that there is no value that can go
in that slot.
Yes, and I'm saying if there is nothing that is both a "se melbi" and a "se nixli", then I accept that fact. Doesn't mean I can't ask the question. Therefore, if there is nothing that is both a "se melbi" and a "se nixli" then there is nothing that can go in the x2 of a "melbi je nixli" as well.
If "ta melbi je nixli no da" is true, then "ta melbi je nixli zo'e"
has to be false. It won't be true even if "ta" refers to a pretty
girl.
I agree. I just don't know if you premise is true. (Although I concede it probably is).
>> How many arguments does the tanru "melbi je nixli" have, and what is
>> the relationship that "melbi je nixli" expresses among its argumens?
>> Are you saying that "melbi je nixli" is a one-argument predicate?
>
> It has four, but probably only the first, and fourth are meaningful for
> (well, of course, it has infinite, like every brivla, but only the first
> four are defined). Actually, the third could be useable, too. "la cilas.
> cu melbi je nixli fi lo merko" -- "Sheila is beautiful for her Americanness,
> but is underage by American standards". But this is probably a cheat, since
> it means that "lo merko" as to be a single something that is both a standard
> of age, and a quality of beauty simultaneously.
But for "la cilas cu melbi je nixli zo'e lo merko" to be true, there
has to be some value (even if it's not worth mentioning) that is
related to "la cilas" and to "lo merko" by the "melbi je nixli"
relationship. That's not to say that there are some words like "no da"
that you could put in the x2 to make a true claim.
Why does have to be true any more than there has to be true that there must be something that can fill the x1 slot of the tanru "cunri'o pavyseljirna" in order for me to say it? If it really bothers you to have an x2 in melbi je nixli that can't be filled in any meaningful way, then zi'o it out. The slot is there, it's defined, it jsut can't be filled with anything, probably, making it useless.
>> Maybe the answer has to be that the place structure of "broda je
>> brode" cannot be determined in general, and it has to be defined on a
>> case by case basis, like the place structures of lujvo.
>
> Agreed.
But that disagrees with what you said above.
I agreed it's a "maybe" :-). But I don't think it needs to be.
--gejyspa