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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Possession with "le le ..."
While this is valid:
lu lu broda cu brode
with terminators it is:
lu lu broda li'u li'u cu brode
And it is still valid to say:
lu lu broda
Without the selbri.
You can't, of course, change the order of terminators. This is not
valid:
lu lu broda li'u cu li'u brode
You can have an empty quote, but you can't have an empty LE, so this
is not valid:
lo lo broda
It still isn't valid if you add CU:
lo lo broda cu brode
You always have to terminate the inner LE. This isn't valid either:
lo lo broda brode
I wonder if the explanation is that nested LE has to be terminated,
CU can only be appended to already valid sumti. Did I articulate
that difference sufficiently? In this case, CU will add a bunch
of terminators, but can't actually literally replace them.
-Alan
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 02:59:43PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
> Oh wait a minute. Now that I think of it. If you read {cu} as "start
> terminating things until you get to a place where a selbri is acceptable
> then stop" then the following is acceptable: lo lo gerku cu denci. We
> reach the {cu} and say "ok, start terminating things until we get to a
> place where a selbri makes sense" -> lo lo gerku ku denci.
> This operation makes sense in every other place where {cu} is known and
> loved.
> {lo nu lo gerku cu batci cu cinri}, the second {cu} stands in for {keiku}
> {lu lo plise cu xamgu cu se cusku}, the second {cu} stands in for {li'u}
> {lo gerku poi lo mripre cu se batci cu blabi}, the second {cu} stands in
> for {ku'o}
> {lo lo gerku cu denci}, why can't the {cu} here stand in place of {ku}
> yielding {lo lo gerku ku denci}
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Ben Foppa <[1]eatingstaples@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Excellent, I understand now - thank you!
> On Apr 28, 11:25 am, Jameson Orndorff <[2]jtorndo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The purpose of {cu} is to mark the next construct as the selbri of a
> > main-level bridi. This word will terminate everything it needs to to
> get you
> > to a main-level selbri.
> >
> > The 'construct' you are working for is a terminator - {ku}. {ku}
> terminates
> > LE, LA, and a few other things, and will let you terminate the 'inner'
> > sumti.
> >
> > lo lo ninmu klama ku tamne
> >
> > mi'e .kribacr. mu'o
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Luke Bergen
> <[3]lukeaber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think the question though is, if {cu} means "separate selbri from
> > > preceding sumti" then, why can't you do {le le ninmu cu klama} where
> this is
> > > interpreted as: (something that goes in x1 of: ( something that goes
> in x1
> > > of: (ninmu <cu so break out of this sumti and start talking about a
> selbri>)
> > > comes).
> >
> > > Ok, I don't know how to describe that better. Basically, if {cu}
> says "ok,
> > > we're done with this sumti, now do a selbri" but that itself is
> happening
> > > inside a LE, then why can't the following selbri be converted by the
> outer
> > > LE?
> >
> > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:06 AM, .alyn.post. <
> > > [4]alyn.p...@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> >
> > >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 07:49:21AM -0700, Ben Foppa wrote:
> > >> > Lojban for Beginners says "...consider how you would say le tamne
> pe
> > >> > le ninmu klama 'the woman traveller's cousin' with this kind of
> > >> > nesting. You could flip it around as le le ninmu klama tamne �
> but
> > >> > then, how can you tell where the 'possessor' ends and where the
> > >> > 'possessee' begins?"
> >
> > >> > I wonder why a construct like "le le ninmu klama cu tamne"
> wouldn't
> > >> > work, to separate the argument to the first "le" (which is "ninmu
> > >> > klama"), from the argument to the second "le" (which is "tamne").
> Is
> > >> > the purpose of "cu" not simply to separate two selbri when they
> are
> > >> > consecutive arguments, or when one is the argument to another?
> >
> > >> You can use {ku} to terminate the inner {le}:
> >
> > >> le le ninmu klama ku tamne
> >
> > >> -alyn
> > >> --
> > >> .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
> >
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> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:eatingstaples@gmail.com
> 2. mailto:jtorndo...@gmail.com
> 3. mailto:lukeaber...@gmail.com
> 4. mailto:alyn.p...@lodockikumazvati.org
> 5. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
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.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
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