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Re: [lojban] la lojbo kurji



Well, the problem is that 'ro gerku cu broda' and 'lo ro gerku cu broda' come close to the same thing, at least involve the same dogs.  The only clear difference is the possibility that those dogs broda collectively (all together or at least in such a way that all are involved in brodaing) whereas ro broda means each and every dog brodas individually.  Of course, if brodaing is something that can only be done individually, even that distinction disappears.  'ro lo gerku cu broda' just as that each and every one of some dogs (see previous conditions) brodas, saying nothing about all the other dogs not covered by the term.

From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 4:40:48 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] la lojbo kurji

I wasn't having trouble with quantifiers in general, just with {ro}. That is why I quoted that paragraph from the "How to use xorlo" page.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:35 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
'ro' is a bad case to pick, because so many cases fall together, so let's work with 're'.  're gerku cu broda' says that exactly two of all the dogs in the operant universe broda.  'lo gerku cu broda' says that dogs (some overtly unspecified but possibly picked out in context  -- I want to say "bunch of dogs" but that, justifiably,  gives xorxes the fantods) broda.  're lo gerku cu broda' says that exactly two out of some (bunch of) dogs broda. 'lo re gerku cu broda' says that (a pack of) two dogs broda, with no commitment about any other dogs in the world.  Indeed, all the 'lo' expressions say nothing about other dogs, just this (some) bunch.  Well, 'lo ro broda' does talk about all the dogs in the operant universe, but that is why it is a bad case.


From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 3:05:02 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] la lojbo kurji

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
oo oo, me first.

re lo ci gerku is 2 of the 3 dogs.  the {re} is saying how many things and the {ci} is saying what the scope is for the things that we are talking about.  amirite?

As far as I understand quantified gadri, yes.
 
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:


2010/10/7 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/10/7 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 2010/10/7 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:32 PM, .alyn.post.
>> >> <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >  .i mi ba tavla fo la lobjan. de'i lo ro djedi
>> >>
>> >> "lo ro djedi" is not a date, you want "ca" not "de'i".
>> >>
>> >> And "ca ro (lo) djedi", unless you are content to do it at some single
>> >> point in time valid for all days.
>> >
>> > "A side effect of the above is that in xorlo, if you mean "one bear",
>> > consider actually saying "pa cribe". It's ever so much more specific.
>> > xorxes
>> > points out that to refer to one bear, "lo pa cribe" is actually a bit
>> > better; "pa cribe cu broda" means that exactly one cribe in the whole
>> > world
>> > brodas, which is often not what you want. We (those of us that have
>> > actually
>> > been using xorlo for the last few months; there are at least half a
>> > dozen
>> > active users on #lojban now) have found that context is almost always
>> > sufficient, however."
>>
>> Is that supposed to be related to what I was saying? I'm not sure if
>> you are quoting that as support or as disagreement.
>>
>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
> I was pointing out that you seemed to be disagreeing with yourself.

No, I don't think so.

Your quote was not from me anyway, and I'm not sure I follow it all,
but what I was saying is that if he wants to commit to doing something
every day he should say "ca ro (lo) djedi", not "ca lo ro djedi",
which is hardly a very strong commitment.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

Okay, maybe you should explain to me, in your own words, the difference between {ro broda}, {ro lo broda}, and {lo ro broda}, becuase it seems to me I'm misunderstanding.


--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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