Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG, On 09/01/2011 11:40:
And Rosta wrote:In English, logical scope tends to be ambiguous, at least within the same clause. So English "not A, B and C" can mean "It is not the case that each of A,B,C is the case" or "For each x, where x is one of A,B,C, it is not the case that x is the case". Unless it has been fixed by recent BPFK action, Lojban has *exactly the same ambiguity* with regard to logical scope between elements that are not explicitly prenexed. (At least Lojban has the option of prenexing to eradicate ambiguity, but it is an option almost never used and that if often used would be received with opprobrium as stylistically objectionable.)I disagree as to the opprobrium. It is precisely where such disambiguation is necessary and desirable that it should be used. Having the mechanism means that when it should be used, it CAN be used. This is precisely the same as Lojban having optional tense and number. The mechanisms are there when the distinction is important, but otherwise can be left to pragmatics.
Optional tense and number is not the same as optional disambiguation, IMO. Optional tense and number is simply a question of how much information to include in one's propositions, and should be a decision solely for the user, not forced by the language design. In principle, the principal attraction of a logical language is that it should be unambiguous by default, as unambiguous as it would be to speak/write predicate logic formulas. Lojban's ambiguities could be (or have been) fixed quite straightforwardly by adopting the xorxesian scope rules (and also xorlo). Its more enduring problem IMO is the painfulness of encoding recurring variables (i.e. argument values that appear in multiple places in a proposition); it's so much easier just to resort to vagueness and use implicit zo'e. The difficult part of designing a logical language is to make it unpainful to use even when using its logical capabilities. --And. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.