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Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to?

Am 08.10.2012 13:11, schrieb la gleki:

I also have to say thatit's simpkly strange not to have a simple way to
express logophor in Lojban.
Actually neither {vo'a} nor {ri} can do the trick.

{vo'a} won't refer to the nesting bridi we need if there are more than
two nesting levels.
e.g. in {do djuno lo du'u mi djuno lo du'u vo'a stati} /vo'a /refers to
/do/ but we need it to refer to /mi./


do djuno lo du'u mi djuno lo du'u lo no'a cu stali


/
/
In {.i ta mlatu .i djica lo nu ri sipna kei fa lo remna} /ri/ refers to
the cat whereas we want it to refer to /lo remna/.


ta mlatu .i djica lo nu vo'a sipna kei fa lo remna



The only way is to use {goi} which produces awkward sentences.

Let's take two examples.
1. I'm afraid to revenge [on people]
2. I'm afraid of revenge.

1. lo remna goi ko'a terpa lo nu ko'a venfu
2. lo remna terpa lo nu venfu


1. lo remna cu terpa lo nu vo'a venfu
2. lo remna cu terpa lo nu [vo'a] se venfu
You rarely need the "vo'a" or "lo no'a" in such simple sentences, specifying explicitly only happens when confusion might arise.
Lojban does not have a static solution for logophoric pronouns, but it has the tools for a dynamic one, using vo'a, no'a and nei. 

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

doị mèlbi mlenì'u
   .i do càtlu ki'u
ma fe la xàmpre ŭu
   .i do tìnsa càrmi
gi'e sìrji se tàrmi
   .i taị bo pu cìtka lo gràna ku


.

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