[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [lojban] [oz] Abstractors






On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:38 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
la .xorxes. cu cusku di'e
What was it in English? I thought it would be something like "I'll do

all I can for you" rather than "I'll make sure everything that can be
done for you gets done".

You're right, it's "I'll ask Oz to do all he can for you".

But don't you think it actually results in the same claim? Doing all he can can include zukte lo ka gasnu as well, so the question is just whether or not to have it as the main selbri. I'm not too attached to the way it currently stands, nor do I have any strong preference for either sentence, but I see no problem at all with the {gasnu lo jai se kakne} version.


For me, the important difference between zukte and gasnu is that the x1 of zukte has to be the agent of the x2 event, whereas for gasnu the agent of x2 is usually someone other than the x1 of gasnu. With gasnu it seems as if Oz will be asked to make someone else do things for you. 


In any case, I'm just not too happy with "jai". The way I understand it,
it is used for sumti raising, i.e. extract an argument from a
subordinate bridi in the x1 of a selbri and raise it to become the first
argument of the selbri. Here you seem to use it to create an event out
of a property?

What things can {se kakne}? Properties.
What things can {jai se kakne}? Everything, including events. All we know is that it appears somewhere inside the abstraction (X jai se kakne ~= kakne lo ka co'e X (what's actually happening in the abstraction is {fai}'s job to specify)).

Yes, but...

Thus, a {jai se kakne} can {se gasnu}.

ro da ka'e jai se kakne
lo se gasnu ka'e jai se kakne
lo jai se kakne ka'e se gasnu
la .oz. cu gasnu lo jai se kakne

Because they are both events.

"gasnu lo jai se kakne" is not impossible, it just doesn't seem to mean what is wanted. What would be an example of a typical "jai se kakne"? Or better yet, what would be an example of a jai se kakne that Oz will be asked to make someone do for you?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.