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Re: [lojban] completely off-topic

    That's ordinarily true, aionys, but only insofar as it's true as "ko'a blabi" is badly formed because ko'a has not been heretofore assigned with a goi.  And yet, people (not me) use those kind of constructions a lot.  If I were to just say "by. rajcla nixli", you should probably say "by ki'a?"  or "ma goi by go'i".  But nonetheless, you would probably rightly assume that "by" was standing in for something, that was not the letter itself (as asserted by iesk, although I disagree with iesk that we would ever assume it is standing in for a initally-glottally-stopped word.  Only alphabetics take that assumption).  So usually, if I meant the letter itself, I would use "me'o by"  Nonetheless, there is no reason to not assume that "denpa bu" could not in fact be implicitly standing in for me'o denpa bu, if there were no contradictory assignments (such as "luk goi denpa bu cu klama la nunmro tarci .i denpa bu cu daspo lo se go'i ") (as per John.

   So, to summarize, in  ".i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o" "denpa bu" is indeed an anaphora with no antecedent, which we can assume in this case is referring to me'o denpa bu.

                                                       --gejyspa



On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

In my understanding, in order for any letteral to be used as a pro-sumti, the referent has to be used in full first.

In other words, {gy.} doesn't automagically refer to a dog unless {lo gerku} has been uttered in the conversation.

Coupling that with the fact I don't think anyone had ever referred to something with anything other than a letter ({la.alis.} -> {.abu}, not {denpa bu}), and I'd say that {me'o} is just an extra two unnecessary syllables.

On Dec 22, 2013 4:07 PM, "iesk" <pa.fae@gmx.de> wrote:
Le dimanche 22 décembre 2013 22:49:13 UTC+1, aionys a écrit :

As I said, I'm not talking about pro-sumti.

I think bare letteral {denpa bu} acts as a pro-sumti. That's why I fail to understand your sentence the way I believe it is meant to be understood.

>The Dot Side doesn't refer to using letterals as pro-sumti, as in the {by.} in {la.benjis. gerku .i by. barda}. It refers to
>the practice of leading cmevla with a "." so that the letteral groups "la", "lai", and "doi" can be used in them. (As for
>example {la.doitcland.} or {la.las,andjeles.}).

I understand that. But Dot Side doesn't change the way bare letterals are interpreted as anaphora. The weird thing about {denpa bu} as an anaphora is that it is unlikely to be used as such, since the words it could possibly refer to can't start with denpa bu. (Although, technically, they can, since every 'vowel-initial' word starts with {.V…}, but the canonical anaphora is of course {.V bu}, not {denpa bu}. Which makes sense.)

I think that {me'o denpa bu} is the way to say 'dot' (in the lerfu sense), cf. <http://dag.github.io/cll/17/10/>. But I'll be happy to be corrected, I tend to not get the subtleties.

(By the way, {lasandjeles} is not a well-formed word, even under Dot Side; {ndj} is not a valid cluster.)

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