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Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete






2014-06-03 3:09 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:27 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

You said that porsi1 is a group. You also said that it's gunma1.

Right, "lo porsi cu gunma lo te porsi". (I think x2 and x3 of porsi should switch order though.)
 
But in another post you said that gunma1 should be "any type".

Right, I think "lo gunma be lo fatci cu fatci .ije lo gunma be lo selsku cu selsku .ije lo gunma be lo selkai cu selkai .ije lo gunma be lo fasnu cu fasnu .ije lo gunma be lo dacti cu dacti" The only one I hesitate about is whether "lo gunma be lo namcu cu namcu", but whwther it'a a namcu or not, it doesn't seem to be of any of the other types.

Can you describe once again what "group" would mean?

 One that consists of many. Examples of groups: "lo gunma be lo xanto", "lo bende be lo gunka", "lo porsi be (fi) lo manti", "lo linji be lo mokca", "lo bakfu be lo grana", "lo derxi be lo tapla", "lo sorcu be lo plise", "lo stura be lo tersu'i", "lo liste be lo valsi", "lo trene be lo carce", "lo cecmu be lo cinfo", "lo mixre be lo skari", "lo salta be lo grute", "lo sanmi be lo lenku", "lo lanzu be lo mirli". It's a new entity that emerges from its constituents.

I hope this thread wont die out since I want to finish with the gimste as soon as possible.

When you say that casnu1 and simxu1 are "sets", you mean "plural", right? As in "lo ci prenu cu casnu lo cukta", "lo re prenu cu simxu lo ka ce'u prami ce'u". Or do you mean "set" as in "lo'i"/"lu'i"? Or both?

Moving on to the x2's:

You also have sets for mixre2, porpi2, spoja2, lanxe2, jbini2, fenso2, konju2, liste2, kampu2, ralju2, lanzu2, bilma2, kancu2, linji2, plita2, sarni2, jinga2 (why?), misno2, natmi2, pesxu2, ransu2, terdi2, gredile2, kombitu2, vlamei2;

That suggests that you do mean "plural" by "set". But then there's cmima2, which shouldn't be a set by that rule.
BTW, is there a difference between (set) and (set of any type)? 

Well, I'm losing the track of this discussion. What are your suggestions on naming those places? Of course I can change all of them to just "object".
Still I wish a formalized explanation was given for each place of what connective to choose. E.g. using {jo'u} for porsi1 would be strange.


(jibni2 and basti2 say x1 instead of x2.)

Fixed.
 

(observer) is not a type in the same sense that proposition/property/number/etc are types.

Okay I can change that from "x3 (observer)" to ''observer x3 (object)".

If you take a property from one bridi and move it to another bridi, it's still a property. If you take an observer out of a bridi and use it in another bridi, there's a good chance that it won't be an observer there. (observer) is a role, not a type. That's not to say you can't include roles as well as types in the definitions, but just to be clear. The type will be (object) and the role will be (observer).

You seem to have redefined "cinza" from being a body-part to being a somewhat odd action predicate with an x2 agent (which is also a role, not a type). This change just makes the gimste more irregular. I think if you are to redefine "cinza" from being a body-part, you should eliminate the x2 altogether.  

probably not {cinza} but something else. {cinza} is not a body part. They are tweezers.
  

cmana2 and volve2 have (place), but lalxu2 and klama2 (and several others) don't. Why those two specifically? I suspect (place) is a role too, since any object could be a place, no? Same with dikca2 (medium).
The same as with "observer".



One last question.
nelci - x1 is fond of/likes/has a taste for x2 (object/state).

Can we say:
mi nelci lo plise
mi nelci lo nu do limna
mi nelci lo ka limna
mi nelci li mu
?

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