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[lojban] {poi'i}


On 28/09/2014 20:17, TR NS wrote:
On Sunday, September 28, 2014 11:02:52 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:


Not really. First off, there's nothing like a definition of a term that uses the term to define itself ;-)

    poi'i: x1 is such that poi'i abstraction is true; x1 binds ke'a within the abstraction.

So please help me understand. It is a NU so what kind of abstraction is it? It's not an event, or a property, or a truth-value, etc. What kind? As far as I can tell it is not an abstraction at all, but a clause like {poi}, or in some examples {noi}, or perhaps a generic {su'u}. The term prenex is being used a lot here too, and I get the feeling the answer I might get is that it is a "prenex abstractor". But what does that mean? A way to talk about prenexes? e.g. "the prenex, all dogs, is ..." but that's not how the examples are, so that's not it. I don't get it. 

Let's take one of the examples:

    mi poi'i ke'a viska ke'a - I see myself.

That doesn't look like an abstraction, it looks like a relative clause. And in this case an incidental one. So how is that different from:

    mi noi ke'a viska ke'a - I, who (incidentally) I see.

Take another example:

    le poi'i ke'a viska ke'a - the ones who see themselves

So that at least looks like an abstraction. But why can't we just say,

    le poi ke'a viska ke'a


{poi'i} is a NU abstractor, therefore a poi'i phrase has the form {poi'i [bridi] (kei)}, and behaves as a selbri. Thus it has a syntax different from that of {poi}.

As for its meaning:
• fo'a poi'i (ke'a) broda (kei) = « fo'a is such that [ it/him/he/they brodas ] » = fo'a broda

So it's a kind of syntactic sugar, it helps having more word order freedom. The ke'a within the bridi enclosed by poi'i-kei binds to (stands for) the x1 of the selbri created by poi'i-kei. {poi'i} parallels the English construction "X is such that ... it ..."


Here are a few examples coming from the new-voi page:

• « la .pam. cu melbi gi'e poi'i so'i da nelci (ke'a) (kei) » = « la .pam. cu melbi gi'e se nelci so'i da »
> "Pam is beautiful and is such that many like her." = "Pam is beautiful and is liked by many."

( here, {poi'i so'i da nelci ke'a (kei)}, underlined in the example, is a predicate which means "x1 is such that many things like x1". )

• « la. pit. cu stati gi'e poi'i so'i da manci lo nu ke'a dansu » = « la. pit. cu stati .ije so'i da manci lo nu la .pit. cu dansu »
> "Pete is talented and (is such that) many are amazed by his dancing"

• « mi kecti lo poi'i ke'a jinvi lo du'u ke'a to'e melbi »
> "I feel sorry for the-thing(s)-which is/are-such-that it/they think that it/they are the-opposite-of-beautiful."
> "I feel sorry for those who think that they aren't beautiful."


.a'o mi sidju
mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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