[lojban-beginners] Re: sedu'u and ko

[ianek <janek37@gmail.com>]

Another argument: NU clauses, according to formal grammar, can be
joined with connectives. So {nu je du'u broda} is correct. On the
other hand {nu je se du'u broda} is not. Of course {se nu je du'u
broda} is perfectly grammatical (with undefined meaning), because {se}
acts on the abstraction.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 8 Sie, 20:45, Jacob Errington <nicty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8 August 2012 07:20, Efrain Caro <betse...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Really? Then why do they ALL have place tags in their definition?
>
> > > du'u abstractor: predication/bridi abstractor; x1 is predication [bridi]
> > > expressed in sentence x2.
>
> > Jonathan, you are obviously a more knowledgeable person on matters of
> > Lojban than myself; so pardon me whether I'm asking a stupid question.
>
> > I want to ask why those definitions contain *[bridi]* in their
> > definitions. By themselves, I assume they don't. I must assume thus
> > that the definition refers to a complete abstraction and not the
> > abstractor by itself. How am I wrong? Does any abstractor form an
> > abstraction all by itself? If so, what {lo se du'u kei} would mean?
> > Does it mean {lo se du'u co'e kei}? Or is it illegal?
>
> > Please, explain.
>
> > mu'o mi'e betsemes
>
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> NU produces a selbri and a selbri contains by definition a place structure.
> However, NU *by themselves* don't have a place structure. The selbri that
> they produce does. The distinction is subtle, but it does exist. Therefore,
> SE do not apply to NU proper. They apply to selbri (and connectives and
> tags).
>
> NU cannot be empty: the parse *will* fail. That is to say that {lo du'u
> kei} is not grammatical.
>
> mu'o mi'e la tsani

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