Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

[Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>]

@Ian and Lindar: Let me rephrase this you don't seem to hear what I'm saying.

"1. It's written out in the definition very plainly.
djuno - x1 knows fact(s) x2 (du'u) about subject x3 by epistemology
x4."

I don't just mean there's an issue with how the sumti are labelled in
the gismu list. Those are trivial to modify. I mean there's no way of
knowing what gismu have those ka's and nu's built into them, and which
need them explicitly added in certain sumti positions.

For example, take a look at nandu and bajra.

{ mi kakne lo bajra } is nonsensical
{ mi kakne lo nu bajra } is sensical

{ mi kakne lo nandu } is sensical
{ mi kakne lo nu nandu } (I assume) is nonsensical or overspecified.

That is, while its true that "There are no conventional
parts-of-speech distinctions like adjectives or nouns in Lojban,"
there are still undeniable semantic roles that we expect -- and reject
-- from gismu when allocated to sumti placement.

I think it's great that we all know from the definition that { se
kakne } is an event/state (so it should have a nu), but I don't like
that there are unwritten rules for which gismu have event/state built
into them. For example, I wouldn't have anticipated the bajra/nandu
discrepancy shown above. I wish for something like:

bajra - is a process (pu'u), is a state (za'i)
nandu - is an event (nu)

See what I mean?

2010/10/29 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 6:54 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> You can't want an
>> apple, you can want to -eat- an apple.
>
> Fortunately nobody pays any attention to the equally silly note in the
> definition of "dunda" that you can't give an apple, you can only give
> possession of an apple, or in "vecnu" that you can't sell an apple,
> you can only sell the possession of an apple, or that you can't offer
> ("friti") an apple, and so on in several other gismu. People only seem
> to fixate on poor "djica".
>
> And eating it is not the only reason you may want an apple for. What
> you want it for is what goes in the x3 of djica, the x2 of djica is
> for what you want.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
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-- 
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

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