Re: [lojban] beyond good and evil

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:16 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8 July 2010 14:33, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just tried putting it into jboski and it says that the second lo is
>> misplaced.  I thought {joi} and friends worked like {.e} does, not like {je}
>> does.  Does {joi} make a tanru of some sort?
>
> {joi} can be within a tanru, but a tanru is not what {joi} makes. I don't
> think the rule that turns two brivlas into a tanru has anything to do with
> the rule by which a JOI specifies the kind of connection between grammatical
> units. The pair of units a JOI is between, is self-evident, given that they
> must connect things that are on the same syntactic level (which is also the
> case for every natlang, so far as I hear):
>
>  (a) lo [broda] joi [brode]
>
>  (b) [lo broda] joi [lo brode]
>
> The first one cannot possibly be a connection between sumtis; and the second
> one not between brivlas. jboski does not parse these correctly, and that may
> be a bug (I could be wrong on that, though).

  That is not a bug as far as the CLL is concerened.. see 14.14.4:
> 14.4)    le nanmu ku joi le ninmu [ku] cu klama le zarci
>   The man massed-with the woman go-to the market.

> The cmavo ``ku'' is the elidable terminator for ``le'', which can almost always be elided, but not in this case. If the first ``ku'' were elided here,
> Lojban's parsing rules would see ``le nanmu joi'' and assume that another tanru component is to follow; since the second ``le'' cannot be part
> of a tanru, a parsing error results. No such problem can occur with logical connectives, because an ek signals a following sumti and a jek a
 > following tanru component unambiguously.

  However, I do agree that the grammar _needn't_ be defined this way,
as it is always clear which level is being connected.

                --gejyspa

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