Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? (was: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language))

[Ross Ogilvie <oges007@gmail.com>]

Yes, certainly. "Thing referred to by ." and "thing referred to by p" then.

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

 Incidentally, Ross, there is ABSOLUTELY no rule that says that "py"
has to refer to "something beginning with p", or that "denpa bu" has
to refer to something beginning with ".".   You can unequivocally say
"la maris goi py cu zvati lo zdani be lo pendo .i py prami zy".    And
that would mean that MARY loves her friend's house, not that her
friend does.  Specific assignments with goi take precedence over the
_convention_ that letters not previously assigned refer to the last
sumti beginning with that letter.
           --gejyspa

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Ross Ogilvie <oges007@gmail.com> wrote:
> Magic words like { bu } have higher precedence than grammatical constructs.
>
> { mi nelci lo mlatu joi denpa bu } means (I think, not totally confident) "I
> like the cat and (thing beginning with dot)", similar to { mi nelci lo mlatu
> joi py } would mean "I like the cat and (thing beginning with p)".
>
> Can someone confirm this?
>
> mi'e ros mu'o
>
> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > {ce} is JOI, so yeah you need the {ku}. How the hell {mi broda ce brode}
>> > differs from {mi broda je brode} and {mi broda joi brode} is anyone's
>> > guess
>> > afaik.
>> >
>> > That reminds me, actually; why does the grammar refuse:
>> > LE SELBRI JOI LE SELBRI
>> > ? Why can't JOI realize "left side is sumti, right side is sumti, so ku
>> > is
>> > implied on left side"? Does the grammar not have enough lookahead, or
>> > something?
>> >
>>
>>    That's exactly right.  The problem is that when you say "lo gerku
>> joi ..." if the next thing you say is "mlatu" then you are still
>> within a single sumti,  So you have to explicitly close off the sumti.
>>  It's explicitly spelled out in the CLL.  Now, whether it not that's
>> NECESSARY for understanding an utterance is a different question. I'm
>> reasonably certain that the next phrase after a JOI can unambiguously
>> determine if you are joining sumti and selbri (since you can't join
>> one to the other).  Perhaps the main difficulty for a nonhuman would
>> come in a sentence like "mi nelci lo mlatu joi denpa bu" (I like cats
>> and the thing labelled ","), since denpa looks like a selbri until the
>> bu comes around.  But I could be wrong, if "bu" is processed
>> differently.  I'm not a parser kind of guy.
>>
>>              --gejyspa
>>
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