Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags?

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

A lot of this phonetic hair-splitting is pretty much beside the point.  As 
people keep noting, Lojban is fairly easy about vowels (and consonants, too), so 
the microdifferences between the various mid central unrounded vowels scarcely 
matters, so long as what you use is well away from a, e and o. So much also for 
"proper" pronunciation.  The difference between  the stressed and unstressed 
vowels in"butter" in (my, for example) English. has been argued since I was an 
undergrad -- the first experiment I did with a sound spectrograph (and one of 
the early ones of those at that) was on that question, with indeterminate 
results: the ranges on several runs overlapped and the deviance could be 
accounted for by the -r (the guy on the "same" side said).  The crucial problems 
seem to be to keep o and a from sliding together as the "aw" o and "father" a 
have done in almost all American dialect. though some in one way, some the 
other. So urging the higher o, of "bone" and the like, for all that it is a 
diphthong, seems the wiser course.  Happily, Lojban does not have (and would not 
accept, I think) the lower fronter bleating a, which around here gets mixed with 
e, which gets mixed with lower i: if my wife says "pan" (to my ears), I never 
know whether she is after a pan or a pen or a pin.  The latter is more common, 
so again, using the i of "fine", a diphthong, helps prevent that problem in 
Lojban in the Ozarks.  Two other comments: never use the -r context for 
anything, what happens to vowels before any r is ultimately describable, I 
suppose, but is surely not easy -- and varies across dialects along with the 
rs.  Second, don't use "root" as  an example, unless you've narrowed your 
pattern speech down to a couple of blocks.  I myself say it two different ways 
(for exactly the same word: "root" alone and in "rootbeer") and most other 
people have a couple, sometimes a very different couple, of pronunciations -- 
and we haven't even gotten to Minnesota and Canada, yet.  




----- Original Message ----
From: Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 1:31:11 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with 
place tags?

On 9 April 2011 19:30, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haha, no, I meant the lojban word "do" not the english word "do" :)

Oh, okay then. :)

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