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Re: [lojban] Re: lojban and PR
Sebastian Fröjd wrote:
just to summarize the discussion here.
It seems that none of you think that it's a good idea to missionize
lojban around the world right now (even if I would like to do just that
here in Sweden when my lojban-skills are better).
I'm not sure what you mean by "missionize".
We certainly are interested in promoting new Lojban use, and even better
when it is non-native English speakers. We are holding off on starting
anything major as an organization, in part because the byfy work needs
to be complete, and we need more tools (and probably texts) for Lojban
learners, so that if a big push produced a big response, we would be
prepared to deal with it.
As an organization, we aren't especially promoting "Lojban as an
international language" in the sense that many people intend Esperanto,
but we have no problem with individuals interested in such a thing doing
so on their own, or with like-minded Lojbanists.
Instead you would like to improve the language itself first.
Any and all official language changes must go through the byfy process,
and there isn't much sentiment for any changes that haven't already seen
experimental usage. (See for example the discussion of the "dot side")
Some of you
would like to make huge changes (like Muhammed), that would make it a
totally different language. I don't see why really, since I think lojban
generally has a great grammatical structure. Others (including me) would
like to make less significant changes, for example to revise some of the
word definitions (especielly to be consistent about name of species,
colours, scientifical and metaphysical concepts etc).
If we choose to redefine the words whenever someone thinks they have a
better definition, the words will never stop changing.
If you want a word with a different definition that the one that is
there, make a new word - preferably a lujvo.
Matt Arnold:
"Most of the people who are centrally active in the language do not
want it to become a transnational language. I, for one, see no
benefit, and see a great deal of harm that would do."
ok, I don't agree since I only see advantages with a global language.
There may be advantages, but the body of actual Lojban speakers
seemingly aren't that interested in it. In general, people interested
in the international language concept have tended to gravitate towards
Esperanto, Interlingua and other such languages whose communities are
entirely focused on that aspect of language.
Some have turned to Lojban, and we welcome such Lojbanists. But there
aren't many for whom that is their main interest - or at least those who
are interested do not talk about that interest very much.
But if we're going to improve the language, I still insist that we have
to be more organized.
If you want to improve the language, first become a skilled user. Then
use the language to gain experience as well as credibility.
As far as organization, byfy is the sole organization to consider
changes, and right now it is a benevolent dictatorship run by byfy jatna
Robin Powell, because too many people say that they want to improve the
language definitions, but in several years, very few actually DO what is
needed (which starts with solidifying the description of the status quo.)
>Who will remember what has been said in this forum
6 months ago?
That is why we retain archives.
I think it would be better to have different projects
clearly listed on the lojban web site: grammatical-logical projects,
projects to make templates for constructing new name of species,
terminology in different scientific fields, metaphysical concepts
(philosophy, religion, new age etc), definitions of colors etc etc. And
to specify how many persons is engaged in each project, the current
status and so on.
There is only one such project with official standing, and that is byfy.
You should be able to find a great deal about it on the lojban.org
website.
There is no intent to recognize outside efforts to change the language.
We can't stop such things, and won't even try to do so, but there is
only one official language, and that is what LLG promotes.
lojbab
--
Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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