On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:16 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:Am 24.07.2012 17:44, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
".i ny za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai be ro lo selgu'e cu na surla kakne ri'a lo nu jilra"
(first, I should note that on a grammatical note, genrei doesn't like it without a "boi" or "cu" between "ny" and "re'u" since they otherwise form into a single lerfu string. jboski (online jbofi'e), OTOH, has no problem with it. I"m not sure what the "correct" interpretation is according to the formal grammar)
It's missing a cu. As I originally said, I did not proof-read the translation, so typos like this one are expected to show up here and there.
Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. I just think it interesting that jboski had no problem parsing it (and let's be honest, most humans wouldn't have trouble parsing it, either, tending to think of "z'aure'u" as a single conceptual unit, and since, even if one does take "ny.ra'u" as single unit, the sentence doesn't parse, even a backtracking type of method must realize that that can't be right)pensi-2's are normally considered to be ideas, not events, so it should be si'o, not nu, for those who are pedantic about such stuff.
You can think about anything. You can think about objects, events, whatever you want. Anything you can hold in your mind can be a pensi2.
Again, the pedants (and I don't necessarily say that I'm one) would say that you CAN'T hold a ball in your mind. You can hold a ball in your hand. You can only hold the IDEA of a ball in your mind, hence "si'o bolci". As for me, I've always felt lojban was too strongly "typed" anyhow.But more importantly, I'm again having trouble getting the proper sense of the sentence. I think you are trying to say that she is once again thinking about how to kill (Snow White) because she is not able to relax because she is no longer the most beautiful in the land, due to her jealousy. Which I guess works, but it's real hard for me to puzzle out the convolutions of the sentence due to the nested modals and tenses
It's quite straighforward for me. But I can walk you through it:
.i ny cu za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei
The queen (ny) again thought about how to kill (her)
mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai lo ro selgu'e
because, until she was actually the pretties of all the people in the country,
cu na surla kakne
(she) would not be able to relaxbecause of her envy
ri'a lo nu jilra
I could add some more pro-sumti, but they are obvious enough to me to be elided. I don't like how the na scopes over the ri'a in this sentence, so I'll fix that in the actual text.So you interpret "co'u X" as meaning "until X"? Interesting. So, that's in line with the proposal on http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Aspect+as+of+24+May+2004 To me, I still use the CLL version, which is part of my confusion. But in any case, I didn't say I couldn't puzzle it out, just that it was difficult. And yeah, I know you like to elide prosumti x1s in your main bridi, but that's the style of your story, so I didn't suggest changing it.--gejyspa