On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:28 AM, selpa'i
<seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 16.09.2012 17:08, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
Ah, so NOW I see where you are coming from. You believe that, contrary to the CLL, "a word must never begin with a vowel", and that the denpa bu must always be a glottal stop, not just a pause. Both are contradicted by Chapter 3 of the CLL,
The CLL's view on this topic is not very coherent. The CLL simply overlooks a lot of this and is therefore outdated.
I find no incoherence on the topic nor outdatedness. YMMV
and lojban as it is actually used.
As it is used by some. Those that understand the things I'm trying to explain here (and agree with it) have already changed their way of using Lojban to make it make more sense. You are not aware of all Lojban usage out there, so this is an argument out of ignorance.
No, but I have heard a lot of lojban over the past 8 years. And with the exception of one person (and I guess, you), I haven't heard anyone treat them as glottal stops.
Since are talking about some theoretical language that you use, and not lojban, there is no point in continuing this discussion, as we are talking about two different languages.
If by Lojban you mean what the CLL describes, then yes, that is not a language I'm speaking and nor is anybody else I consider a good speaker of Lojban. There is no point in bringing up the CLL in matters that it clearly is either inconsistent about or that it adresses poorly. I'm sure you are aware of at least some changes that have been made to the original Language described in the CLL. Do you object to all of them because the CLL contradicts them, or do you agree with them because they actually make a lot of sense?
Well, then, I guess you don't consider me a good speaker of lojban, since I follow the CLL, except perhaps in the one or two areas over the past decades where the BPFK has actually made a decision contrary to it (but AFAIK nothing has been finalized by them in many many years). But I don't see that in THIS matter I don't see any contradictory ruling by "the powers that be" And while CLL may or may not be the ultimate authority on "lojban as she is spoke", it's the best and most complete one out there to date. Feel free to write another if you feel it's inadequate. But I like to have my bible.
--gejyspa