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Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2

Jorge Llambías, On 06/10/2014 23:10:
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 9:55 AM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com <mailto:and.rosta@gmail.com>> wrote: On 5 Oct 2014 23:38, "Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com <mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com>> wrote: 
    > The presupposition is that when you use "lo plise" there's something you are talking about, and that something is identified by their satisfying the predicate "plise".

    What sort of identification is this? It sounds like you're saying lo is definite, and attributing to it the sense I had understood le to have, with nonveridical description?

I looked up "veridicality" in Wikipedia, to see if we are talking about the same thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veridicality


Not really a helpful move, since we are after specifically its application to definite descriptions, where I believe general and jboske application of the term are congruent.


    So {lo broda cu brodu} is not equivalent to {zo'e ge broda gi brodu}?

I would say they are not equivalent because that it brodas is in one
case presupposed and in the other case asserted.


Okay. That answers my question. What's the rationale for your answer (i.e. for holding that the lo description is presupposed)?

    If this is already covered somewhere else on wiki or in archives, just point me to it.

I don't think there is any concentrated full coverage anywhere.


I have seen attempts to define {lo} periphrastically using {zo'e}. Since afaik Lojban has no words for marking presupposition, any periphrasis (without the requisite neologistic presupposition-markers) is doomed to fail.

--And.

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