On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Fine, but what's the general valsi for "have" in the sense used here, which is neither hold, nor possess, nor retain? Are you suggesting that every instance of "<x1> srana lo <bridi>" be changed to "<x1> se <bridi>"?
There is no single lojban word which means the English "have" in all its senses (my Merriam Webster lists over 13.) Indeed, I'm surprised that Ceqli does have such a thing. In most cases, such as "I have a house/car/pet/hat", possession is indicated, and "ponse" is correct. In cases of indicating holding something ("I have a gun"), "jgari" would be correct" To indicate a general relationship between two things, the actual nature of the relationship should be indicated ("I have a brother", "I have a head" -> "mi se bruna" "mi se stedu")
I didn't say "all" senses. I said "this" sense, and you didn't answer my question. Based on your response, I'll assume your answer would be "yes".
Well, the point I was trying to make is that lojban would consider "I have a hand" and "I have a head" to be to DIFFERENT senses of a word glossed in English as "have" because one is "being-with-hand" and one is "being-with-head". So I am not suggesting that "every instance of '<x1> srana lo <bridi>' be changed to '<x1> se <bridi>'" Only where '<x1> se <bridi>' is in fact what you are trying to convey.
So, in other words, your answer is "yes", at least in the cases where the place structure of <bridi> is "x1 is the <bridi> of x2 ...", such as with stedu, xance, dalpe'o, famti, panzi, etc., etc.
Obviously in the case of valsi that don't follow that pattern we just can't use that word for that sense of "have", since apparently we have no valsi that has that sense /generally/, which, by the way, was what I was asking.
Also, I disagree that pets are owned. Yes, they are bought, but I don't consider any living thing property, so ponse is definitely not the right word for the relationship between myself and my pets.