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Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI
This is hardly a linguistic subtlety, being a fundamental difference in
linguistic behavior. On the other hand, it is hard to make reasonably compelling
examples of this sort of thing, so the thing to do is surround with a whirl of
text to point out exactly what is going on. Of course, it also happens that
someone comes on something in a very inchoate fashion and it takes several
passes through the critical mill to work out what it was they found. And that
may well be the case here, though the final grind has yet to be done. And the
earlier cases are just ever narrowing stabs at what they have, not to be taken
into account as a later stage is reached, I hope this is true, but, after 35
years, I tend to view any mucking about in UI with the hermeneutics of
suspicion, and the total ineptness of even your attempt at number one leaves
that suspicion only slightly allayed.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 5:36:14 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:14 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> And for 1? These are not, after all, translations but rather part of an
effort
> to teach and justify a new usage. One expects such to be fdone with relevant
> care.
Not everyone is consciously aware of such linguistic subtleties, so
the fault was not necessarily carelessness.
> As you not, acceptable translations that make the point are easily come
> by (I am a little uncertain about 'yay for Mom', which doesn't seems more to
> applaud than co-rejoice, but that is aesthetics). As I said, 1 does not
>obvious
> lends itself to even these explanations,
Which is why one has to resort to a not-fully-adequate paraphrase. How
would you translate "uu" in English? Given that, we can probably find
some better way to translate "uu dai" and "uu da'oi ...". Maybe
something like:
la .selkik. .uu da'oi .lindar. cu co'e
"Selkik ('poor thing!' would say Lindar) does something."
but that's not very idiomatic and still doesn't get it quite right.
Maybe English is just incapable of doing it so succintly as Lojban in
this case. That's a translation problem, not a problem with the
Lojban.
> but does -- like the rest of them, fit
> in with a propositional interpretation, which is also fairly regularly
>mentioned
> subliminally (it is hard to talk overtly about some things in Lojspeak) in
> earlier comments in this ane earlier related topic.
If your point is that Lojbanists are not always accomplished linguists, I agree.
If your point is that "da'oi" is somehow against the spirit of Lojban,
I disagree.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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